Jamming!, September 1983: Difference between revisions
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<center><h3> The Elvis Costello Interview </h3></center> | <center><h3> The Elvis Costello Interview </h3></center> | ||
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''Are there any of your records, that are other people's old favourites, that you wouldn't want to perform now? | ''Are there any of your records, that are other people's old favourites, that you wouldn't want to perform now? | ||
We don't do "(I Don't Want To Go To) Chelsea" very often, we just dig it out occasionally for a bit of fun. It was the mainstay of the set when we didn't have very much material, so we kind of exhausted it. Some of the older numbers we can still do ... we still do "Pump It Up." Now we do it with the horn section, it's a different number, y'know ... it's got a whole different character to it. It's a sort of anti-rock 'n' roll song, that's the joke of it, really. And I still enjoy the perversity of playing it, and people all leaping around, and acting just like they do to a regular rock 'n' roll tune, when the song is actually ... the opposite of "Satisfaction", if you like! (Laughs). At one point, when I was a little bit more serious — I took things maybe a bit too seriously — things like that used to annoy me. Now, I see the humour in them, and I can appreciate the irony of it, rather than get wound up about the fact that people are not understanding my Art! Just 'cause you write a song with a certain thing in mind, you can't demand that people listen to it with that certain frame of mind. They've got to listen to it with whatever frame of mind they've got — if they've got one at all! I know I've done my job properly if I'm happy with the song and I'm happy with the recording. And if you want to seek it, there's stuff put in there deliberately so that people can get out of it whatever they want. I don't demand that people sit there with a set of rules on how to listen to our records! | We don't do "(I Don't Want To Go To) Chelsea" very often, we just dig it out occasionally for a bit of fun. It was the mainstay of the set when we didn't have very much material, so we kind of exhausted it. Some of the older numbers we can still do ... we still do "Pump It Up." Now we do it with the horn section, it's a different number, y'know ... it's got a whole different character to it. It's a sort of anti-rock 'n' roll song, that's the joke of it, really. And I still enjoy the perversity of playing it, and people all leaping around, and acting just like they do to a regular rock 'n' roll tune, when the song is actually ... the opposite of "Satisfaction", if you like! (''Laughs''). | ||
At one point, when I was a little bit more serious — I took things maybe a bit ''too'' seriously — things like that used to annoy me. Now, I see the humour in them, and I can appreciate the irony of it, rather than get wound up about the fact that people are ''not understanding my Art!'' Just 'cause you write a song with a certain thing in mind, you can't demand that people listen to it with that certain frame of mind. They've got to listen to it with whatever frame of mind they've got — if they've got one at all! I know I've done my job properly if I'm happy with the song and I'm happy with the recording. And if you want to seek it, there's stuff put in there deliberately so that people can get out of it whatever they want. I don't demand that people sit there with a set of rules on how to listen to our records! | |||
''Wouldn't it worry you, though, if you wrote one particular song that a lot of people seemed to take the wrong way? | ''Wouldn't it worry you, though, if you wrote one particular song that a lot of people seemed to take the wrong way? | ||
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''I would never, even though I'm personally unemployed, have guessed that "...And In Every Home" was about unemployment, if I hadn't read the NME interview... | ''I would never, even though I'm personally unemployed, have guessed that "...And In Every Home" was about unemployment, if I hadn't read the NME interview... | ||
Yeah, that was deliberately... you see, I think there are plenty of other people that write very specific songs about social problems, in very, very bold, very cold terms, and do it very well. They have a kind of relationship with the audience which allows them to do that, like Paul Weller, and UB40 to some extent at the height of their powers, anyway. And it's not a relationship that I've ever cultivated — I've never pretended to be | Yeah, that was deliberately... you see, I think there are plenty of other people that write very specific songs about social problems, in very, very bold, very cold terms, and do it very well. They have a kind of relationship with the audience which allows them to do that, like Paul Weller, and UB40 to some extent at the height of their powers, anyway. And it's not a relationship that I've ever cultivated — I've never pretended to be a Man Of The People. I'm an individual — I'm not masquerading as Joe Ordinary, so I think it would be really pretentious of me to try and write an anthemic song for the downtrodden people, which a lot of writers try to do and look really stupid. | ||
''To try and write something which even they will understand ... | ''To try and write something which even they will understand ... | ||
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''I did hear a story about that song, that you'd done a fairly simple demo of it, given it to Steve Nieve to do an arrangement, and he'd come back with this enormous wide-screen production ... | ''I did hear a story about that song, that you'd done a fairly simple demo of it, given it to Steve Nieve to do an arrangement, and he'd come back with this enormous wide-screen production ... | ||
Yeah, well, it was just a simple piano tune ... not that simple, the chords are all a bit peculiar. 'Cause I ramble around the piano a bit, I don't really play it properly, so some of the more eccentric tunes are written on the piano! The straight forward ones are written on the guitar, normally; I play neither really well, but the piano leads me to odder things! So I | Yeah, well, it was just a simple piano tune ... not ''that'' simple, the chords are all a bit peculiar. 'Cause I ramble around the piano a bit, I don't really play it properly, so some of the more eccentric tunes are written on the piano! The straight forward ones are written on the guitar, normally; I play neither really well, but the piano leads me to odder things! So I | ||
had that, and Steve did write the rest of the arrangement. I said to him, "just go mad" and he did! | had that, and Steve did write the rest of the arrangement. I said to him, "just go mad" and he did! | ||
''How much of a role do The Attractions normally play, then, in how the songs sound on the records? | ''How much of a role do The Attractions normally play, then, in how the songs sound on the records? | ||
It's hard to say, really ... I come along with an idea of the general rhythm, and sometimes that's the way it goes, and everybody works out their parts, like, Bruce and Pete work out a rhythm pattern, which you have to do to propel the song. Bruce is very good on harmonies, he's not just a good rhythmic bass player. In fact, his strength is really the melodic lines that he thinks of; he often adds really interesting notes which help bring the melody out. Steve is an excellent musician, he's capable of all that as well. Then sometimes I'll bring a song along, and I've got the idea of the rhythm, but it won't sound right, so we'll play nine different arrangements, you know! We'll play it as a tango, play it as a waltz, play a reggae arrangement, and we go through all the comical arrangements! Sometimes you might hit on something really interesting; more often, you come round to some variation on the original idea. The trouble with ''Imperial Bedroom'' was that I took a lot of the vocal ideas to an extreme: I was working with just Geoff Emerick in the studio, and making a lot of the production decisions myself. | It's hard to say, really ... I come along with an idea of the general rhythm, and sometimes that's the way it goes, and everybody works out their parts, like, Bruce and Pete work out a rhythm pattern, which you have to do to propel the song. Bruce is very good on harmonies, he's not just a good rhythmic bass player. In fact, his strength is really the melodic lines that he thinks of; he often adds really interesting notes which help bring the melody out. Steve is an excellent musician, he's capable of all that as well. Then sometimes I'll bring a song along, and I've got the idea of the rhythm, but it won't sound right, so we'll play nine different arrangements, you know! We'll play it as a tango, play it as a waltz, play a reggae arrangement, and we go through all the comical arrangements! Sometimes you might hit on something really interesting; more often, you come round to some variation on the original idea. The trouble with ''Imperial Bedroom'' was that I took a lot of the vocal ideas to an extreme: I was working with just Geoff Emerick in the studio, and making a lot of the production decisions myself. That's my only criticism of ''Imperial Bedroom'': I'm really pleased that I did that record, it has all of these almost experimental ideas on it; but a few of the songs are maybe over-developed. They'd gone past the point where they were good, and I got bored with them, and did something else to them, and it wasn't always a good thing. | ||
''Do you think that the other media, apart from the press, have treated you reasonably well? | ''Do you think that the other media, apart from the press, have treated you reasonably well? | ||
Er ... I think there's always been the people that have kept an eye out for what we've been doing, particularly on the radio. There's other people that, whenever we're having a success, will always tell you that they played that record, when in fact, they probably didn't! | Er ... I think there's always been the people that have kept an eye out for what we've been doing, particularly on the radio. There's other people that, whenever we're having a success, will always tell you that ''they'' played that record, when in fact, they probably didn't! | ||
With TV ... well, we don't really have a relationship with TV! The only way you build up a relationship with them is by having lots of hits! I think that overall, television does treat pop music rather shabbily. Pop music programmes are all shoved on at dodgy times, or they're given tiny budgets ... | With TV ... well, we don't really have a relationship with TV! The only way you build up a relationship with them is by having lots of hits! I think that overall, television does treat pop music rather shabbily. Pop music programmes are all shoved on at dodgy times, or they're given tiny budgets ... | ||
''You think that's still the case, even with the new ones on Channel 4? | ''You think that's still the case, even with the new ones on Channel{{nb}}4? | ||
I still think there's a way to go. I think they are getting better; just the fact that there's more of them, means that hopefully there has to be more exposure for bands. I think it's good that there are magazine programmes where you get live bands and videos; I wouldn't like to see an innovation like MTV, the American system where it's just 24-hour videos. Musicians are an uninteresting bunch of people to look at anyway; loads of people miming to their records, over and over again over the space of 24 hours — I think it'd drive you right round the twist, to watch it! | I still think there's a way to go. I think they are getting better; just the fact that there's more of them, means that hopefully there has to be more exposure for bands. I think it's good that there are magazine programmes where you get live bands ''and'' videos; I wouldn't like to see an innovation like MTV, the American system where it's just 24-hour videos. Musicians are an uninteresting bunch of people to look at anyway; loads of people miming to their records, over and over again over the space of 24 hours — I think it'd drive you right round the twist, to watch it! | ||
''There were some people, not very long ago, who would have had you believe that making a video was, in the future, going to become part of the creative process of making a single, and that bands with no visual ideas wouldn't be able to succeed. | ''There were some people, not very long ago, who would have had you believe that making a video was, in the future, going to become part of the creative process of making a single, and that bands with no visual ideas wouldn't be able to succeed. | ||
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''Was that what you were getting at in "Pills And Soap" — the lines about, "give me the needle, give me the rope"? | ''Was that what you were getting at in "Pills And Soap" — the lines about, "give me the needle, give me the rope"? | ||
Er ... no; that's a very cynical song. One night, I was watching the television, and saw coverage of a funeral ... it was somebody in Northern Ireland, it might have been a soldier or an IRA man or an innocent, I honestly can't remember. It was just the insensitivity with which the camera dealt with the mourners — it really made me angry. Prying into people's grief — I mean, abject grief — and at the same time, matters that really should concern us are trivialised or hidden away, and replaced with cute articles about dogs and cats, and children — and not really about things that matter about kids and animals — but the nice, cute stories that fill the newspapers. And it was a rather nasty suggestion that we did away with them all — what would they write about then? (Laughs) It was a very black song — and I was watching a film called ''The Animals Film'', and I just wrote down the title "Pills And Soap" — it transpired that that's one of the by-products of the misuse of animals. And then I started to expand the idea to the misuse of the human animal, in all its many ways ... particularly with reference to misplaced sentiment, including patriotism — misplaced emotion along those lines. | Er ... no; that's a very cynical song. One night, I was watching the television, and saw coverage of a funeral ... it was somebody in Northern Ireland, it might have been a soldier or an IRA man or an innocent, I honestly can't remember. It was just the insensitivity with which the camera dealt with the mourners — it really made me angry. Prying into people's grief — I mean, abject grief — and at the same time, matters that really should concern us are trivialised or hidden away, and replaced with cute articles about dogs and cats, and children — and not really about things that matter about kids and animals — but the nice, cute stories that fill the newspapers. And it was a rather nasty suggestion that we did away with them all — what would they write about then? (''Laughs'') It was a very black song — and I was watching a film called ''The Animals Film'', and I just wrote down the title "Pills And Soap" — it transpired that that's one of the by-products of the misuse of animals. And then I started to expand the idea to the misuse of the human animal, in all its many ways ... particularly with reference to misplaced sentiment, including patriotism — misplaced emotion along those lines. | ||
''So that was why you felt you had to get that song out in time for the election campaign? | ''So that was why you felt you had to get that song out in time for the election campaign? | ||
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''This is something that Siouxsie and the Banshees have touched on in about three or four songs; people idealising a foreign country, and imagining it to be like heaven ... | ''This is something that Siouxsie and the Banshees have touched on in about three or four songs; people idealising a foreign country, and imagining it to be like heaven ... | ||
Yeah, well, what's worse is when it's some place that you're talking about going ''back'' to; as if it were The Homeland. People do it all the time, I think; I'm sure people that are abroad from England do it; but certainly Irish people do it. Lots of nationalities do it, and sometimes it's a positive thing, it sustains you, but I'm writing the song about the negative side of it, because it builds up a lot of bigotry. The last verse goes: ''"But late on in the evening, through the tears and fol-de-rol / Come the sentimental feelings for the lure of vitriol / Longing thoughts go hankering for the old home overseas / With a blindfold and | Yeah, well, what's worse is when it's some place that you're talking about going ''back'' to; as if it were The Homeland. People do it all the time, I think; I'm sure people that are abroad from England do it; but certainly Irish people do it. Lots of nationalities do it, and sometimes it's a positive thing, it sustains you, but I'm writing the song about the negative side of it, because it builds up a lot of bigotry. The last verse goes: ''"But late on in the evening, through the tears and fol-de-rol / Come the sentimental feelings for the lure of vitriol / Longing thoughts go hankering for the old home overseas / With a blindfold and a National Anthem sung in different keys"'' So obviously I've got Ireland in mind more ... not to take one side or the other, just the nationalism on both sides. Idealising any country is going to lead to grief. | ||
''Do you still feel that the extreme right in this country is a serious threat? It seemed you did around the time when the "Rock Against Racism" thing was quite big ... | ''Do you still feel that the extreme right in this country is a serious threat? It seemed you did around the time when the "Rock Against Racism" thing was quite big ... | ||
Yeah ... I think they've made such fools of themselves that only people of very limited intelligence give them any credence anymore. The thing is that they had a kind of caravan rolling at one time which looked rather dangerous. But I don't think you can ever write people like that off, because when you least expect it — and when things get very grim for everybody — it's very easy to persuade people who are easily persuaded that "''These'' people are the cause of all your problems". It's easy to manipulate the public using those kind of arguments; I think you've always got to be on your guard for those people, and never give them the chance to gain a foothold. I don't think there's perhaps quite as imminent a danger of them taking hold of a lot of people's lives, the way it appeared about four years ago; but all the time there is that feeling | Yeah ... I think they've made such fools of themselves that only people of very limited intelligence give them any credence anymore. The thing is that they had a kind of caravan rolling at one time which looked rather dangerous. But I don't think you can ever write people like that off, because when you least expect it — and when things get very grim for everybody — it's very easy to persuade people who are easily persuaded that "''These'' people are the cause of all your problems". It's easy to manipulate the public using those kind of arguments; I think you've always got to be on your guard for those people, and never give them the chance to gain a foothold. I don't think there's perhaps quite as imminent a danger of them taking hold of a lot of people's lives, the way it appeared about four years ago; but all the time there is that feeling — and there's an underlying racism, not just against black people, but against lots of races in this country — inherent in the national character. It really came to the fore during the Falklands War. If they'd been Germans, or something — well, not the Germans, because we hate the Germans as well! But if they'd been Canadians — if it had been the French Canadians it wouldn't have been so bad! But they were ''dagoes''! That's the attitude! It's like, go and kill the wops! All that "let's bash the Argies" attitude we saw in the papers — there's no doubt it had a lot of sympathy with people, you've got to accept that that's part of certain peoples character. The extreme Right can mobilise that kind of ignorant bigotry, because it's in a lot of people. | ||
''It was very clear that the "Falklands factor" played a tremendous part in boosting Thatcher's popularity ... | ''It was very clear that the "Falklands factor" played a tremendous part in boosting Thatcher's popularity ... | ||
Oh yeah ... she took full advantage of it. I think you don't need to look so far to find the Right now — the Right's in power! I think you've got a very cunning Right- wing Government, so every day of your life is affected by their decisions, and their lack of compassion. They're content that they seem to hold half the population in. Now I don't think you have to look so far for the people that are threatening your freedom of choice, and freedom of life ... particularly children. They're just gonna grow up to a completely different society if the Tories have their way. | Oh yeah ... she took full advantage of it. I think you don't need to look so far to find the Right now — the Right's in power! I think you've got a very cunning Right-wing Government, so every day of your life is affected by their decisions, and their lack of compassion. They're content that they seem to hold half the population in. Now I don't think you have to look so far for the people that are threatening your freedom of choice, and freedom of life ... particularly children. They're just gonna grow up to a completely different society if the Tories have their way. | ||
''So did that recently motivate you to start writing more obviously political songs, like "Shipbuilding" for example? | ''So did that recently motivate you to start writing more obviously political songs, like "Shipbuilding" for example? | ||
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''Really? | ''Really? | ||
Yeah ... I don't like the title. I like the bridge, and I quite like the horn part; but it was written in ten minutes, and it sounds like it. It wasn't really ''our'' new single, it was for a film. That's the only one I really hate; some of them I feel awkward with, 'cause they're that much longer ago. You change, and you think you're getting better, but you might just be getting different ! I think it's more likely that I'm getting better at | Yeah ... I don't like the title. I like the bridge, and I quite like the horn part; but it was written in ten minutes, and it sounds like it. It wasn't really ''our'' new single, it was for a film. That's the only one I really hate; some of them I feel awkward with, 'cause they're that much longer ago. You change, and you think you're getting better, but you might just be getting different ! I think it's more likely that I'm getting better at songwriting. I don't know physically how much better you can sing. I mean, I've only got the voice that I was born with; I can stretch it, and push it, and mess around with it, but I can only achieve so much with it. I just can't sing certain ways I'd love to be able to sing; like Marvin Gaye ... like Chet Baker ... like Frank Sinatra ... like Stevie Wonder ... to have that kind of dynamic range, and for all this to be effortless! The way you can improve as a singer is just ... more care for the song. Trying to reach the feeling ... the voice will do what you want it to then. | ||
''You've now got this deal by which F-beat is licensed to RCA — is that a deal you're happy with? Have you got as much control as you'd like? | ''You've now got this deal by which F-beat is licensed to RCA — is that a deal you're happy with? Have you got as much control as you'd like? | ||
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More touring! | More touring! | ||
{{cx}} | {{cx}} | ||
'''In the weeks since the interview, I've had the chance to get properly acquainted with ''Punch The Clock''; and I can only say that I think that's a chance you should take, too. Elvis Costello continues to shine, to confuse, to excite and to frighten; and I hope and believe that he will still be doing so for some considerable time to come. As he says; even in a perfect world where everyone was equal, he'd still own the film rights — and be working on the sequel ... | |||
{{Bibliography notes header}} | {{Bibliography notes header}} | ||
{{Bibliography notes}} | {{Bibliography notes}} | ||
{{Bibliography next | |||
|prev = Jamming!, July 1981 | |||
|next = Jamming!, July 1984 | |||
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'''Jamming!, No. 15, September 1983 | '''Jamming!, No. 15, September 1983 | ||
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[[image:1983-09-00 Jamming! cover | [[image:1983-09-00 Jamming! cover.jpg|360px]] | ||
<br><small>Cover.</small> | <br><small>Cover.</small> | ||
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<small>Page scans.</small><br> | |||
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<br><small>Page scans.</small> | <br><small>Page scans.</small> | ||
[[image:1983-09-00 Jamming! photo 02 bb.jpg|360px| | <small>Photos by [[Bleddyn Butcher photos|Bleddyn Butcher]].</small><br> | ||
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<br><small>Photos by [[Bleddyn Butcher photos|Bleddyn Butcher]].</small> | |||
[[image:1983-09-00 Jamming! | [[image:1983-09-00 Jamming! page 04 clipping.jpg|x120px]] | ||
<br><small> | <br><small>Contents page clipping.</small> | ||
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==External links== | ==External links== | ||
*[http://www.ijamming.net/Jammingmagazine/Jamming!Magazine2.html ijamming.net] | *[https://web.archive.org/web/20141016110718/http://www.ijamming.net/Jammingmagazine/Jamming!Magazine2.html ijamming.net] | ||
{{DEFAULTSORT:Jamming 1983-09-00}} | {{DEFAULTSORT:Jamming 1983-09-00}} |
Latest revision as of 00:33, 25 January 2024
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