Rank the rankers' EC favourites!

[King Hoarse]

These are the songs that came out on top of the individual record rankings. Solack suggested we rank them. Of course the scope here means that any order will be even more mood-oriented than the past rankings. But it was fun, so here goes:

1. Shipbuilding (Robert Wyatt’s version is still the definite article, though)
2. The Birds Will Still Be Singing (much prefer Norma Waterson’s cover)
3. New Lace Sleeves (arguably the best Attractions performance on record)
4. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
5. Riot Act
6. Oliver’s Army
7. When I Was Cruel no. 2
8. Lipstick Vogue
9. Man Out Of Time
10. Brilliant Mistake
11. Bedlam
12. In The Darkest Place
13. Sulky Girl
14. The Other End Of The Telescope
15. I Hope You’re Happy Now
16. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
17. Watching The Detectives
18. Fallen
19. Worthless Thing
20. I’m Your Toy
21. Remove This Doubt

[wardo68]

1. New Lace Sleeves
2. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected No. 4
3. Brilliant Mistake
4. Man Out Of Time
5. Riot Act
6. Fallen
7. Oliver’s Army
8. Lipstick Vogue
9. I’m Your Toy
10. I Hope You’re Happy Now
11. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
12. Worthless Thing
13. Shipbuilding
14. In The Darkest Place
15. Watching The Detectives
16. The Other End Of The Telescope
17. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
18. Sulky Girl
19. Bedlam
20. Remove This Doubt
21. When I Was Cruel No. 2

[Jackson Monk]

1.Man Out Of Time
2.Brilliant Mistake
3.New Lace Sleeves
4.Lipstick Vogue
5.Sulky Girl
6. I Hope You’re Happy Now
7. Bedlam
8. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
9. Riot Act
10. Shipbuilding
11. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
12. Oliver’s Army
13.The Other End Of The Telescope
14.When I Was Cruel no. 2
15.In The Darkest Place
16. Fallen
17. Watching The Detectives
18. Worthless Thing
19. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
20. I’m Your Toy
21. Remove This Doubt

[Otis Westinghouse]

This is getting even more mind-boggling than Crufts!

[Fishfinger king]

Extremely tough - it will be different tomorrow.
1. New lace sleeves
2. I hope you're happy now
3. Man out of time
4. Brilliant mistake
5. Couldn't call it unexpected no 4
6. Watching the detectives (not really a MAIT track)
7. Lipstick vogue
8. In the darkest place
9. When I was cruel no 2
10. Worthless thing
11. Oliver's army
12. Riot act
13. Deep dark truthful mirror
14. The birds will still be singing
15. Shipbuilding
16. I'm your toy
17. Sulky girl
18. The other end of the telescope
19. Fallen
20. Bedlam
21. Remove this doubt

[Hank]

Interesting... only a handful of these would actually be on my all time favorites list... But any way you slice it, New Lace Sleeves is always coming out on top. This is non-negotiable!!!

...Let's do it!

1. New Lace Sleeves
2. Shipbuilding
3. Oliver’s Army
4. Man Out Of Time
5. Riot Act
6. Brilliant Mistake
7. Watching The Detectives
8. Lipstick Vogue
9. I Hope You’re Happy Now
10. The Other End Of The Telescope
11. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
12. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
13. Bedlam
14. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
15. When I Was Cruel no. 2
16. In The Darkest Place
17. Sulky Girl
18. Fallen
19. Worthless Thing
20. I’m Your Toy
21. Remove This Doubt

[And No Coffee Table]

1. New Lace Sleeves
2. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
3. In The Darkest Place
4. Shipbuilding
5. Riot Act
6. The Other End Of The Telescope
7. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
8. Oliver’s Army
9. Man Out Of Time
10. Bedlam
11. Watching The Detectives
12. I Hope You’re Happy Now
13. Sulky Girl
14. Brilliant Mistake
15. Lipstick Vogue
16. Worthless Thing
17. Remove This Doubt
18. I’m Your Toy
19. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
20. Fallen
21. When I Was Cruel no. 2

[guidedbyvoices]

1. I hope you're happy now
2. Sulky Girl
3. Brilliant Mistake
4. Olivers Army
5. Couldnt Call It Unexpected #4
6. New Lace Sleeves
7. Detectives
8. Birds Will Still Be Singing
9. Man out of time
10. When I was cruel no 2
11. REmove This Doubt (love the song, but could've been done much better)
12. I'm your toy (ditto, and I can't stand it not being called Hot Burrito #1)
13. Shipbuilding
14. Lipstick Vogue
15. In The Darkest Place
16. Bedlam
17. Riot act
18. Deep dark truthful mirror
19. The other end of the telescope
20. Fallen
21. Worthless thing (I don't even know how that song goes!)

_________________

[mood swung]

that any order will be even more mood-oriented than the past rankings.

does this mean my rankings count twice?

1. Riot Act
2. Man Out Of Time
3. I Hope You’re Happy Now
4. Brilliant Mistake
5. Sulky Girl
6. The Other End Of The Telescope
7. Watching The Detectives
8. New Lace Sleeves
9. Bedlam
10. I’m Your Toy
11. Lipstick Vogue
12. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
13. When I Was Cruel No. 2
14. Oliver’s Army
15. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected No. 4
16. Shipbuilding
17. Remove This Doubt
18. Worthless Thing
19. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
20. In The Darkest Place
21. Fallen

[so lacklustre]

01. Lipstick Vogue
02. Riot Act
03. New Lace Sleeves
04. Watching The Detectives
05. Oliver’s Army
06. Shipbuilding
07. Man Out Of Time
08. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
09. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
10. When I Was Cruel no. 2
11. Brilliant Mistake
12. I’m Your Toy
13. Bedlam
14. I Hope You’re Happy Now
15. Sulky Girl
16. Fallen
17. The Other End Of The Telescope
18. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
19. In The Darkest Place
20. Worthless Thing
21. Remove This Doubt

[BlueChair]

01. New Lace Sleeves
02. Man Out Of Time
03. Riot Act
04. Brilliant Mistake
05. Watching The Detectives
06. I Hope You’re Happy Now
07. Oliver’s Army
08. Shipbuilding
09. Lipstick Vogue
10. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
11. Sulky Girl
12. The Other End Of The Telescope
13. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
14. When I Was Cruel no. 2
15. Fallen
16. In The Darkest Place
17. I’m Your Toy
18. Bedlam
19. Remove This Doubt
20. Worthless Thing
21. The Birds Will Still Be Singing

[alexv]

Using the same approach as on the worst thread, and apologizing in advance if my deviating from the list upsets the apple cart:

GREAT EC SONGS

01. Lipstick Vogue
02. Riot Act
03. New Lace Sleeves
04. Watching The Detectives
05. Oliver’s Army
06. Shipbuilding
07. Man Out Of Time
08. I Hope You’re Happy Now
09. I'm Your Toy
10. Brilliant Mistake
11. In the Darkest Place
12. Couldn't Call it Unexpected no. 4

SO SO EC (BY COMPARISON)


13. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
14. fallen
15. The Other End of the Telescope

WITH ALL THE TRULY GREAT EC SONGS...


16.The Birds will Still Be Singing
17. Sulky Girl
18. Worthless Thing
19. Bedlam
20. Remove this Doubt
21. When I Was Cruel no. 2

[DeathWearsABigHat]

1. Man Out Of Time
2. Lipstick Vogue
3. Riot Act
4. The Other End Of The Telescope
5. New Lace Sleeves
6. I’m Your Toy
7. In The Darkest Place
8. Oliver’s Army
9. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
10. I Hope You’re Happy Now
11. Shipbuilding
12. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
13. Sulky Girl
14. Watching The Detectives
15. Brilliant Mistake
16. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
17. Bedlam
18. When I Was Cruel no. 2
19. Worthless Thing
20. Remove This Doubt
21. Fallen

[bambooneedle]

1. Brilliant Mistake
2. New Lace Sleeves
3. Man Out Of Time
4. Oliver’s Army
5. The Other End Of The Telescope
6. Worthless Thing
7. When I Was Cruel no. 2
8. Watching The Detectives
9. Lipstick Vogue
10. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
11. Shipbuilding
12. Bedlam
13. I Hope You’re Happy Now
14. Riot Act
15. Sulky Girl
16. Fallen
17. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
18. In The Darkest Place
19. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
20. I’m Your Toy
21. Remove This Doubt

[Mr. Average]

1. Lipstick Vogue
2. New Lace Sleeves
3. In The Darkest Place
4. The Other End Of The Telescope
5. I Hope You’re Happy Now
6. Man Out Of Time
7. Watching The Detectives
8. Oliver’s Army
9. Couldn’t Call It Unexpected no. 4
10. I’m Your Toy
11. Brilliant Mistake
12. Shipbuilding
13. Sulky Girl
14. Riot Act
15. Deep Dark Truthful Mirror
16. Bedlam
17. When I Was Cruel no. 2
18. Worthless Thing
19. The Birds Will Still Be Singing
20. Remove This Doubt
21. Fallen

[mood swung]

where is the love for Bedlam? and Sulky Girl ain't doing much better.

[Jackson Monk]

Is is simplistic to say that whilst Elvis still makes great records,people prefer earlier Elvis in general? The top five on most people's lists (both best and worst) are almost exclusively pre-1990.

[alexv]

Jackson, I'll bite and probably get my head handed to me. Pre-emptively, what follows is simply my personal assessment. Just a middle aged Ec fanatic trying to tackle Jackson's question, strictly from my skewed perspective, decidely NOT trying to convert others to my way of thinking, or looking to get into a fight as to which EC is better, my EC or yours, but curious as to what others think about Jackson's question.

I agree with your assessment, at least as it applies to me. Much as I try to keep an open mind, the records that truly connect with me are the early records. With very few exceptions, the songs on those records just grab me in a different way. I think the rankings you mention reflect the fact that to a lot of us, the early records plain and simply had more great songs, and less mediocre ones. I use the word mediocre to mean mediocre by EC standards. His mediocre songs still, in most cases, outshine 99% of the pop garbage out there.

MAIT, TYM, AF, GH, and IB have always to me been EC at his best. KIA is next sort of on its own as a different sort of still "great" record. PTC was a step down, but still a cut above what he's done since. Starting with B&C all the records he's made since then (except for WIWC which I dislike intensely and TDM which I just can't get into except for about 3 songs)are terrific records, and I treasure them as I think most of our group of Kool Aid Drinkers do, but they just don't measure up, TO ME, in their entirety, when compared to the early records or KIA. Too many clunkers sprinkled among the gems. PFM is the only record of that period that, to me, has the same consistent greatness as those early records.

Why? To me, it's a combination of factors: the great records were made by a small, un-self conscious combo led by a still un-self conscious, un-self referential lyric genius. It's very difficult to find artists who can make "better" records as they mature. The gold comes early, and EC is no exception. What explains PFM? Beats the shit out of me. Maybe Burt did the trick, maybe I just like Tin Pan Alley crap in my old age.

I do suspect, however, that maybe there's a more simple reason: those of us who got into EC in the early years probably look at those records through rose colored glasses filled with nostalgia for our misspent youth, and all we end up with are biases masquerading as judgements.

[mood swung]

decidely NOT trying to convert others to my way of thinking, or looking to get into a fight as to which EC is better, my EC or yours

now where's the fun in that?

pass the Kool Aid.

[noiseradio]

My favorite records by EC are from different parts of his career. While TYM, AF, and Trust are probably always going to be my top 3, with GH close behind, I prefer some of his later albums to MAIT. For example, I'd rate B&C and KOA both higher than MAIT, and I'd probably rather listen to Brutal Youth than MAIT on most days. I'd rank MAIT higher than Spike and MLAR, but it would only barely best TDM for me; in time, I may very well grow to love TDM more than MAIT, which is probably sacrelige to some. I like WIWC more than PTC. I like ATUB more than AB. So it seems to me that what I like doesn't depend on chronology. I was shocked at how good TDM was and how quickly it became one of my favorites. A lot of this probably has to do with the fact that I discovered Elvis with Spike. So the early records were actually things I came to later. My first EC purchases were Spike, B&C and KOA. It's probably no accident that KOA and B&C still rate so highly for me. BUt Spike has lost some of its sheen, I'll admit.

[Mr. Average]

I do suspect, however, that maybe there's a more simple reason: those of us who got into EC in the early years probably look at those records through rose colored glasses filled with nostalgia for our misspent youth, and all we end up with are biases masquerading as judgements.

...not only do I completely concur with alexv, but there is a myriad of evidence (for Bamboo, that means "lots") that suggest that what he says is not just opinion, it is a fact of our human nature. Regardless how our youth was spent, there is a magical niavete' of youth that inextricable associates the music to a period with less stress, more fun, less responsibility, more fun.

Of course, there will be more than one poster who started thier Elvis evolution with KOA, or ATUB, and then over the years worked back, and still prefer the old to the new, However, I submit that this is really the exception to the rule.

When I hear these old records, my amygdala, hippocampus and other elements of the limbic system (affect, memory, rage, primitive instinctual behaviours) that kick into high gear and probably begin to spasm at a frequency just under 3012 hertz.

Or thereabouts. +/- 2 hz

[The imposter]

Here is my ranking for best of the best, with my personal choices in brackets.

1. Shipbuilding
2. man out of time
3. Unexpected no.4
4. Oliver's army (Accidents will happen is right up there too)
5. New Lace Sleeves ( Clubland)
6. Telescope
7. D. D. truthful mirror ( Veronica is pretty good too)
8. Detectives ( Alison would get my vote here)
9. Hope you're happy now ( I want You?)
10. Brilliant Mistake (Indoor Fireworks for me)
11. Sulky Girl ( Favourite Hour, prefer bonus disc version, at least MFBB gives it the orchestration it deserves.)
12. Worthless Thing ( Love field is good too, especially live.)
13. Darkest Place ( God Give Me Strength??? )
14. Lipstick Vogue ( Pump it Up)
15. Remove this Doubt ( Threw it all away )
16. Bedlam (much prefer Scarlet Tide for its simplicity, sincerity and optimism.)
17. Riot Act ( much better stuff on GH eg. I can't stand Up.)
18. Fallen ( When it Sings , if I had a favourite on this album.)
19. I'm Your Toy ( Roses is sung beautifully by EC)
20. Birds still singing ( Taking my Life...)
21. WIWC2 ( overrated for me this one, just goes on and on, a bit like Alibi,which is better but I'm gonna choose 45.)

[Mechanical Grace]

Scientist-wannabe blather notwithstanding, I tuned into Elvis at age 17 with ARMED FORCES and I still love that and all the oldest stuff, but my top preferences are all over the chronological map. My top 5 are probably GH, Trust, KOA, B&C, and North.

[bambooneedle]

I don't look at any of EC's early records with any nostalgia at all. I only heard pre-Brutal Youth EC later. Come to think of it, I don't have any nostalgia about Brutal Youth either or even WIWC. The longing for the past is just something people like Mr. Average do I think. A good song is a good song, if it stands up at all it stands up always but how the times might have coloured how it comes about is always interesting.

[Jackson Monk]

Well I must be in the Mr A camp I guess. I find that there is lots of music (not just EC) that evokes a certain time in my life and gives me a warm glow. I agree that this is human nature. My life is mapped out with musical moments that are bitter, sweet or bitter-sweet.

Nothing Elvis has done since Brutal Youth has really provided me with a nostalgicv glow, with the exception of North.

Basically though, although there's been plenty of great songs since, the overall quality was better pre 86.