the GAP

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:10 pm

verbal gymnastics wrote: What would be the deal about somebody singing Elvis's song "live" in an advert? Would there or could there be any objection from Elvis? Would permission be needed?

Absolutely, if he still had copyright, which I'm sure he does.

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:21 pm

selfmademug wrote:OKAY, MAN (affecting low booming voice, and pretending to have a penis).

Welcome to the stupid dicks club!

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:36 pm

Thank you. I'm now a proud, [fake] cock-carrying member. There's another joke in there but I'm too lazy to tease it out...

verena · Post by **verena** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:45 pm

Jeez ! in my (humble) opinion a woman needs more to have got b**** !

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:00 pm

verena wrote: a woman needs more to have got b**** !

Let me repeat: a woman needs more to have got balls?

See, I have absolutely NO idea what that means. I mean in a basic, literal sense. And yes I know you mean balls, I just don't understand the rest of it.

For the record, I am [a] woman, hear me roar.

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:09 pm

selfmademug wrote:
verena wrote: a woman needs more to have got b**** !
See, I have absolutely NO idea what that means. I mean in a basic, literal sense. And yes I know you mean balls, I just don't understand the rest of it.

It's like one of those early Surrealist cut-ups. The words are all there, but they make no sense.

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:15 pm

Perhaps being nearer to France helps it make perfect sense to me. Verena is pointiong out that having balls might be more apposite than your newly acquired penis. Personally I think both suit you rather well.

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:22 pm

To the degree that I need balls, I've got 'em, but I'll keep my original equipment, thank you very much!

verena · Post by **verena** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:16 pm

Guys, I was shocked by the new avatar and I reacted, instead of ignoring it, which would have been wiser obviously. But if I am guilty of going overboard, I do not think I am the only one.

Concerning what I wrote, about women needing balls rather than a cock, I just meant guts=courage, it is a rather common expression I believe. Considering the kind of conversation that was going on, I don't think the remark was totally our of place.

Selfmademug, I am sorry if I hurt you, what I said was not in the least directed against you, believe it or not, it is true. (I do hate oreos, but I like ice cream and cake, and I do not hate America).
You seem to have a lot of anger in yourself, and that makes you very nasty.

As to my posts not making sense, sorry about this also. A lot of posts do not make sense to me either, but I don't have a problem with that.

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:51 pm

Hee-- nasty nasty nasty!! No, I'm not really, most of the time.

You haven't hurt me in the least, or offended me, and I have nothing against you, nor have you gone overboard; you just confuse the hell out of me in a way that I am pretty sure has nothing to do with the language barrier and everything to do with lazy self-expression. And it kinda makes me laugh, I confess. I guess that's a bit nasty but you could also call it a reaction against careless and meaningless writing, which offends me on a certain level (not a personal one). I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person and you're allowed to hate Oreos all you want. It's just inane to say things like "it's better not to realize you are eating them," which I'm sure would mean as little in French as it does in English. In any case, I'll cool it. Consider my wrist slapped.

I do, however, have a problem with Extreme Thomasso and his/her posts, as I expressed, as requested, by 'being a man'.

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:07 pm

verena wrote:Guys, I was shocked by the new avatar and I reacted, instead of ignoring it, which would have been wiser obviously.

Doesn't take much to shock you.

verena · Post by **verena** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:13 pm

SMG : No need to slap your wrist (you slapped my face, we may as well live it at that !). Btw, the "Oreo" wording you justed flagged was inane.

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:15 am

Perhaps if we what back read we have written then sense things make may.

verena · Post by **verena** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:22 pm

I am surprised by the uneasiness of some of you concerning E.C.'s GAP deal.

Seems to be one of the normal things you need to do when you are a composer. Unless you decide you had rather not make a living out of your art. Which is very respectable, just another view of life (perhaps satisfying from a moral standpoint, but with some cost attached, for instance moonlighting).

From a sensible "General Accounting Principles" stand(ard)point, the management company may have supported the idea, I would think.

invisible Pole · Post by **invisible Pole** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:48 am

verena wrote:I am surprised by the uneasiness of some of you concerning E.C.'s GAP deal.

Seems to be one of the normal things you need to do when you are a composer. Unless you decide you had rather not make a living out of your art. Which is very respectable, just another view of life (perhaps satisfying from a moral standpoint, but with some cost attached, for instance moonlighting).

From a sensible "General Accounting Principles" stand(ard)point, the management company may have supported the idea, I would think.

Verena, I suppose the "uneasines", as you call it, stems not just from the fact that Elvis allowed his song to be used for a commercial, but rather that the GAP deal stands in clear contrast to his earlier firm opposition against such practices.
And on top of that it's Alison for God's sake ....

verena · Post by **verena** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:37 am

Could you try to look at this issue with more compassion ?
I cannot completely understand how you feel because I am not you.

Thinking differently is one of the best things mankind is capable to do. What do we know of anything ?
Many people change their mind, oftentimes honestly, so their aim remains true.

johnfoyle · Post by **johnfoyle** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:12 pm

Getting back to Elvis 'n endorsements - here's an item on e-bay at the moment -

ELVIS COSTELLO ( PEAVEY AMPLIFIERS ) 1970's PROMO trade Ad...

noiseradio · Post by **noiseradio** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:11 pm

Elvis may not have complete control over his publishing. Recall the Nike ads a few years back that used "Revolution," very much against the wishes of any of the surviving Beatles. I don't know all of the details of Elvis' publishing situation, but if he doesn't have total control, there may be contractual loopholes that allow his songs to be used whether he likes it or not.

Or he might be a sell-out.

LessThanZero · Post by **LessThanZero** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:51 pm

I gave SelfMadeMug my testacles a long time ago, and she can do with them as she pleases.

Were the people on the GAP commercial other singer/songwriters? Is it like the Starbucks thing where Elvis picks some of his favorite songs? Cuz I really enjoy that CD. If this is the case, it doesn't seem AS bad as a NIKE or Pepsi commercial or something...

Mr. Average · Post by **Mr. Average** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:10 pm

The business of the world is selling. Everyone has his/her price.

A few years ago is someone gave a good review to the latest Green Day record, they would be roundly ridiculed for supporting these 'sell-outs'. However, time passes, American Idiot is released and pople like it an recommend it. The same people who formerly scorned everything Green Day without even giving a listen.

I'm not any great fan of Green Day, but the analogy works, I think. Elvis Costello is a highly effective, and somewhat shameless self promoter. That isn't a derogation or a slam. It is how artists secure and retain a fan base. You can argue the sanctity of Dylan and his refusal to self promote in the early days, but he was promoting early on. How did Elvis get to be the musician with the greatest number of appearances on the David Letterman show...more than any other musician? Was that a happy accident, or purely incidental to his talent? If it makes you better to think that, then go right ahead. But he is an effective promoter and I don't see anything wrong with it at all if he can walk the freakin' walk. And he continues to prove that he can walk the walk with every new release, because even the EC catalogue dregs (whatever you think that they are) are of higher quality than the average production of many other popular, modern, or respected musicians contributing to the musical landscape in 2005.

Otis Westinghouse · Post by **Otis Westinghouse** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:39 pm

American Idiot got more attention and plaudits as it was better, no?

You need to differentiate between the self-promotion of his own music and the selling of it to others. As he said recently, people have already paid to hear it, why does he need to make money from others using it for their own ends.

verena · Post by **verena** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:44 pm

“The business of the world is selling”. Quoting you, Mr. A.

I quite agree with your comments, and this statement describes the business world as it is. True you gotta have some big bucks if you wanna go out to sail on sea with a chic brand new ship.

However business is not all, you know there are still other worlds to mind on this crooked planet.
But this was not your point, I guess...

selfmademug · Post by **selfmademug** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:35 pm

LessThanZero wrote:I gave SelfMadeMug my testacles a long time ago

No wonder you've kept your youthful appearance! Cutie. Don't be such a stranger. Sweatshirt weather is nearly upon us!

To say the business of the world is selling is meaningless; it wouldn't be business otherwise. As for Green Day, I've got nothing against them but they've been waiting to 'sell out' since the day they started; they're of an entirely different era and mindset. I don't dislike their music but their 'edginess' is like a cheap hat they wear, they've been waiting to get paid for it for a long time now.

I would assume that it was Michael Jackson's doing to lease Revolution to Nike. He's a soulless man in more sense than one.

Surely the Brothers Foyle can tell us about the state of E's publishing rights? I suspect that as a practicing meglomaniac, he has all rights to everything he wrote on his own.

The Gap's website is being rebuilt but I'm sure when it reopens it will feature their new campaign, "favorite artists/favorite fit/favorite songs". There was a little cd-sized promo booklet in this month's issue of Vogue (among othr mags, I assume). Spend $60 at the Gap and you get an 8-track CD, one of which is Brandon Boyd (of Incubus, it tells me, not that I'd know) covering Alison. PS, his favorite fit is 'boot flare'.

LessThanZero · Post by **LessThanZero** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:22 pm

I don't know what my favorite fit is, but Boot Flare sounds about right. It is so tempting to throw on the sweatshirts isn't it SMM? VERY soon...

SweetPear · Post by **SweetPear** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:21 pm

LessThanZero wrote: Were the people on the GAP commercial other singer/songwriters? Is it like the Starbucks thing where Elvis picks some of his favorite songs? Cuz I really enjoy that CD. If this is the case, it doesn't seem AS bad as a NIKE or Pepsi commercial or something...

Yes, they were.

I'm going to say this despite the fact that I'll most likely be berated to death....
While I don't condone the shoddy business pratices that the GAP has been accused of (whether actually true, I don't know) but putting that aside, I, as an EC fan (of which your average Dick and Jane are not, making being an EC fan extra cool....) was tickled pink to hear "Alison" in that commercial. I get a kick out of it every time I see it.

BUT, if it's being used against EC's wishes, then that's not so cool.
I took it as being pretty flattering. I mean out of all the singers and songs written, to have chosen one of his is really something.

I have to say, except in the instances where someone's material is being used AGAINST their wishes or to contribute to or condone some evil...I could care less about all that GreeDay selling out stuff. I'm a fan, I love music, I want to hear their music. (I'm not just talking about GreenDay) It's like going to a show on the basis of someone's political beliefs. I'm going for the music, not to hear what you think about the state of the union.