'The Return Of The Spectacular Spinning Songbook', Nov. '11

[krm]

What about buying a second hand LP? Is that legal?

[bronxapostle]

Otis and crw...i'm with you BOTH! i have been in deep since 1977 and have virtually EVERY RELEASE EVER (too many NUMEROUS times, UK/U.S. and doubles, triples of each) upon vinyl AND cd, including the parade of reissues. my EC 45 vinyl collection EASILY tops 100 pieces as does the 12" vinyl collection and then came cds (including appearances by our friend on other releases) surely surpasses 150. i've given him BIG concert money (100 times!!!), including purchasing LOADS of official t-shirts, concert programs, posters, coffee mugs, buttons, guitar picks and MORE! i'd tell him to his face, "i'm sorry i'm a boot fan, but i gotta have MORE sir!" like you said cwr....he can release virtually ANYTHING i have already in "boot" format OFFICIALLY and YES I WILL PURCHASE IT ANEW!!!

and then OTIS: no one has said it better, since ME!!!
"Bootlegs do nothing but help foster sales of recordings, I'm sure. They keep the fandom bubbling, and therefore CD and ticket sales."
ask Bruce Springsteen who CERTAINLY subscribes to this theory (if NOT admittedly!) who here thinks Bruce didn't INTENTIONALLY leak things to create lunatic fans from WAY BACK to the mid to late 1970's????

as my final tidbit here...cwr: would you mail me a "WHERE IS THE LOVE?" as i NEVER did get that one!

[Natasha]

What about buying a second hand LP? Is that legal?

I hope it is, krm, 'cause I've been doing that a lot lately. :p By the way, I've been spending all my savings buying vinyl. I need help.

Just another curious fact and also good news: The only vinyl factory in Latin America, which is located here in Rio, was reopened earlier this year. The factory was bought by an independent record company, Deck Disk, which have launched a lot of local rock bands lately. They've released most of their catalog on vinyl. Interesting for a country where people rarely buy CDs and don't usualy pay for download.

[Jeremy Dylan]

What about buying a second hand LP? Is that legal?

Of course. Presumably, the LP was originally paid for at a record store, with profits going back to the artist and label, then when the owner of the LP grew tired with the album, decided to sell it, which was perfectly within his moral and legal rights, having legitimate ownership over the item in question. If, however, he'd stolen the LP from the store and sold it, or made a copy of the record and sold that, that would be wrong, although not on your part, as you would be under the reasonable assumption that you were buying a legitimate copy.

[Neil.]

There's even a news report about it now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf4ILVE_EWs

[watercamp]

Support your favorite artist
buy commercial vinyls, cds, dvds, show tickets, t-shirts, etc...

[bambooneedle]

One time I stole a John Mellencamp CD, believe it or not. Dance Naked. It was at a large second hand shop near my parents' where I had actually bought a copy of Tom Waits - The Early Years Vol.2 (not just saying this to sound cool) two weeks before but as i'd gotten on the train to go home I realized that the cd was missing from the jewel case! There were big cheap pot plants and big cheap plastic containers there. Not much of a music shop.

Well here I was now, reluctantly returning prematurely to my parents', with some anticipation of being recompensed for this injury somehow, when the fat slob behind the desk flat out refused and uh.. that was that. He went back to reading the comic in his lap. I was slightly startled. I breathed deep and felt my heart pump. I knew I had a moment to collect some phrase I would deliver upon this slob, like "why the fuck would i make it up!?". How dare he refuse! and he was probably ready with some standard line of bull as well, when in my now-constricted range of vision i spotted the closest thing of perceived value I could see... the Mellencamp cd... (I knew it contained Wild Night by Van The Man, coincidentally) on a stand.

"Well I'm taking this, then!" and marched toward the door. I have never seen blubber move so unnaturally in my life as he struggled to run around the desk! It was a thousand movements that i was cognizant were occuring fast yet it was compelling phenomena being beheld in slow motion. I thought I'd better quicken my pace. I reached the door and took a look. He sort of stomped to a stop struggling for breath so i slowed down as well, but then, "he's a thief!!".

I ran. By the time he made it to the door I was well past the people at the crowded fruit market outside. I don't think anybody recognized me. I laughed for days.

[Kevin Davis]

I took great pleasure in downloading Van the Man and the Chieftains' magnificent Irish Heartbeat for nothing. It was on Amazon for like £48, and pretty much nowhere else. So I stole it! Then again, I bought it on cassette when it came out. I'm innocent! Why on earth is such a great record not readily available on CD?

Morrison had plans to re-reissue his whole catalog a few years ago, but apparently they only got about halfway through before the whole program stopped dead in its tracks. Hopefully someday they finish. I was lucky enough to get the first remaster of Irish Heartbeat probably less than six months before it went out of print again.

[migdd]

Amazon.com has now the DVD for pre-order: http://www.amazon.com/Elvis-Costello-Re ... 151&sr=1-2
Releasedate is also January 24, 2012.

Nice, but where's the Blu-ray? Please?!

Yes, blu-ray please.

Does anybody else think that $13.99 for the mass-market version of this release is almost a bit under-priced? The run-time but 112 minutes. I'd love to see a happy median (the "semi-deluxe edition" ) which would be an affordable box set of the CD and DVD or, better yet, an expanded edition (maybe at a later date) that includes an extras section of some of the deeper catalog cuts and covers. One can only dream, I suppose.

[the_platypus]

I'm surprised at the wide coverage this has gotten. My ex girlfriend's elderly mother asked me about it today.

[Kevin Davis]

Are you still in regular contact with your ex-girlfriend, or did her mother cross all boundaries of estrangement specifically to ask you about this?

If so, it sounds like the 60 year-old mother might be trying to "reconnect," if you know what I mean.

[the_platypus]

On second thought, I think she's older than 60, so I edited the post. I was having dinner with her daughter and she came in, saw me and started excitedly telling me about it.

She's the person who hooked me up with those tickets from when EC was coming to Buenos Aires. We know how that worked out

[Kevin Davis]

Do you think there's a chance that she sabotaged the tour just to smite you after you and her daughter parted ways?

[the_platypus]

Yes.

[Ymaginatif]

What about buying a second hand LP? Is that legal?

Of course. Presumably, the LP was originally paid for at a record store, with profits going back to the artist and label, then when the owner of the LP grew tired with the album, decided to sell it, which was perfectly within his moral and legal rights, having legitimate ownership over the item in question. If, however, he'd stolen the LP from the store and sold it, or made a copy of the record and sold that, that would be wrong, although not on your part, as you would be under the reasonable assumption that you were buying a legitimate copy.

How about if you bought a legal download of an album (and gave the arists and their record company their share), grow tired of it and then decide to sell the mp3?
Or can you never have legitimate ownership over an mp3?

[Jeremy Dylan]

What about buying a second hand LP? Is that legal?

Of course. Presumably, the LP was originally paid for at a record store, with profits going back to the artist and label, then when the owner of the LP grew tired with the album, decided to sell it, which was perfectly within his moral and legal rights, having legitimate ownership over the item in question. If, however, he'd stolen the LP from the store and sold it, or made a copy of the record and sold that, that would be wrong, although not on your part, as you would be under the reasonable assumption that you were buying a legitimate copy.

How about if you bought a legal download of an album (and gave the arists and their record company their share), grow tired of it and then decide to sell the mp3?
Or can you never have legitimate ownership over an mp3?

Well, that's murkier because of the intangibility of the format. There's nothing to stop you from keeping the files, making an exact copy and selling those as many times as you'd like.

[Kevin Davis]

On the plus side, though, no one in his right mind would pay some random person for a "second hand mp3." Probably isn't going to be much of an issue in the long run.

[invisible Pole]

A question : would you be more ready to download illegally if a single CD cost 30GBP ?

[Jeremy Dylan]

A question : would you be more ready to download illegally if a single CD cost 30GBP ?

No, but I'd buy fewer records. That translates to $45AUD. When I first started buying CDs at the age of eight or nine and I had to save up several months pocket money to afford one, they cost about $30AUD. If they hadn't been reduced in price and had simply risen with inflation, they'd now cost about $40, so 30GBP would simply be a few dollars increase over inflation. Doesn't sound that unreasonable to me.

[bambooneedle]

Maybe not to you, but to someone else it might!

A question : would you be more ready to download illegally if a single CD cost 30GBP ?

Hello iP. The inflated price of cds is not usually the artists' fault, but that of the retailer's. If they were then to offer the cd at a bargain price the artist would presumably still get their original %, wouldn't they? It's often because of the greed of retailers that artists are being unfairly punished.

A way around that is of course to pay/reward the artist on your own terms, like for example taking the time and trouble to go and pay $109 to see Elvis solo live, buying his albums within reason, etc.

Artists should be grateful they are being paid, if not money initially, attention! That is the initial currency. It is then up to them as an artist to figure out how to land their product in someone's home for a price they are happy with. And be an interesting enough live draw and so on. Or else, take a regular job!

[the_platypus]

sssssssnip

[invisible Pole]

Actually, I wasn't asking that much a theoretical question. About ten years ago when internet access was slowly becoming a common thing in Poland, CD’s were priced at around 50-60 PLN ( = 9 GBP ). At the same time, the purchasing power of the population was only a fraction of that in Western Europe, with average monthly salary around 350 GBP.

I am not condoning piracy, illegal downloading etc. I have been lucky enough to be able to afford Elvis’ official releases and numerous reissues, as well as hundreds of CD's from other artists.
I am just trying to understand someone with a family, earning shitty money, loving music, with no “spotify” or now-popular free streaming around.

Good point from bambooneedle, however, that the price is more the retailer’s (and all the intermediaries’) fault than the artist’s. Who knows, If they had decided to cut the CD’s prices by half, or even two-thirds, ten years ago, they wouldn’t have lost so many potential buyers.

[Ymaginatif]

How about if you bought a legal download of an album (and gave the arists and their record company their share), grow tired of it and then decide to sell the mp3?
Or can you never have legitimate ownership over an mp3?

Well, that's murkier because of the intangibility of the format. There's nothing to stop you from keeping the files, making an exact copy and selling those as many times as you'd like.

So selling digital verssions of your album is in fact ripping off the buyer, because he/she has no legal way of selling his purchase second hand?

[Ymaginatif]

And therefore, if MP3s have no intrinsic value, shouldn't they be free anyway?
Would you download if the artist offered mp3s legally for free?

[Jeremy Dylan]

So selling digital verssions of your album is in fact ripping off the buyer, because he/she has no legal way of selling his purchase second hand?

No. They're buying the right to own it, not sell it on. I don't think that's a consideration that's at the front of many purchaser's minds. It's an album, not a cottage.