You learn something new every day

[bambooneedle]

Always with the relevent comment.

It's not off topic.

And it's not the chat room, it's a post.

[selfmademug]

It wasn't off topic or on topic, it was a spelling correction. Touche to you, king of logic and correctness!! (Note to self: never refer to anything written here as a 'comment,' Boo says the only correct term is 'post'.)

[A rope leash]

Bambooneedle is the only person who is absolutely correct so far in this thread.

If nations "must pay" for past crimes, then the USA should be paying reparations to the decendants of African slaves and Native Americans, and also to the decendants of the Chinese.

I've seen a lot of "proof" on both sides of this event, but I don't trust anyone in particular. I fail to see why I should accept any version of the story as absolutely correct to the point that anyone denying it should be villified.

O yes, we should not forget the Nazi atrocities, but we should also not forget to not be like them. If we here in the USA want to harp on something constantly, why don't we harp on the racial and social inequities of our own past and indeed our own present, and focus on making right on those counts? Why should we care so much about what Mel Gibson's dad thinks about the holocaust?

We deny our own atrocities by placing them far out into the desert, or somewhere on the other side of the railroad tracks.

Who here thinks these statements are worthy of banishment?

1) "I got nothing against niggers, I think everyone should own one..."

2) "We need to just blow them fucking ragheads off the map, and turn all that into glass".

3) "Faggots get AIDS because God doesn't want them in his world".

4) "Islam is an evil religion, and its followers are in legion with Satan".

5) "It must be true. I saw it on the one-eyed Jew".


All of these statements were recently heard by me from people who live right here in the American "heartland".

Now, we even have a college professor in Kansas who got hit in the head with rocks and was forced to recend a class for saying that Creationism and intelligent design are ridiculous, and that Christian fundies who promote such claptrap are stupid as Hell. First, they came for the scientists...

[selfmademug]

Well, Rope, I agree with you about our own atrocities, and I think I *do* harp on those domestic problems (that would be my hate-America-first bit) and I work every day to make things better in my tiny way. And yes I still care about Mel Gibson's views of the world because he foists them on other people in a powerful way. Likewise I am merely offended by statements like those you list, but when people organize to ACT on such stuff-- think Abortion clinic bombers, e.g.-- then I'm all about arresting them, frankly.

Thank God there are so many of us on this board who are capable of knowing who is 'absolutely correct' at any given moment. I know you said that in the interest of relativism but it bothers me all the more for that. Should I not believe you when you said your brother suffered and died needlessly because I was not there to witness it as truth? Should I give equal weight to 'both sides' despite all reason and evidence that there exists a true version of whether people died or did not?

Personally I think that the holocaust deniers should be left to rot, but as active neo-nazis grow from their ranks, I think it's important to keep track of them, just as with all terrorists. And yes I count some (some!) of our horrific foreign policies past and present among such terrorism.

[A rope leash]

My own estimation is that groups that expouse hatred and violence toward other groups should be watched like hawks and infiltrated like crazy by law enforcement. They should be taken out on conspiracy charges before any act of violence occurs, in so much as that is possible.

But, gee whiz, we gotta let them talk to know how dangerous they are. If it turns out that they are making sense, it should come out in the wash.

I admit to being only partially educated on the subject of the holocaust, and on the travails of Zundel and Irving. It seems to me that in the name of free speech that the USA should not have sent Zundel to Canada, much the same as they do not send death penalty candidates to the USA.

If someone told you that my brother had not died, you would then be as obligated as you wanted to be in discovering the truth about the matter. If you even have doubts of your own, you could investigate. The burden of proof eventually ends with me, and whatever I do to obstruct your inquiry will no doubt be percieved as an intent to hide the information.



We should at least give them the mule and forty acres.

I don't know man, I dig relativism, man, I'm fine with it, man...

It's the hypocrisy of everything, man. "We don't torture". Do you believe that?

[miss buenos aires]

Anyway...

I learned today that the Spanish word for "spokesperson" is "vocero."

[noiseradio]

Rope,

I'm all in favor of US reparations to descendants of slaves, Native Americans, and the Chinese, as well as Japanese-Americans who ere interned during WWII. I'm all about paying for crimes. By my reckoning we also owe Mexico a butt-load of cash for stealing half their country. But seriously, if you doubt the Holocaoust happened, you're a fucking idiot.

[Mr. Average]

Look into the eyes, face to face, of a Holocaust survivor, then tell them that you doubt it ever happened.

"History Repeats the Old Conceits, the Glib Replies, the Same Defeats..."

It repeats. To work so hard to discredit something so credible is, in my opinion, tantamount to holding open the door for the next guy to do the same thing.

Noise:

It may be a stretch, but I wonder how you might answer this hypothetical:

"If your great grandfather robbed the Wells Fargo Stagecoach, terrorized the passengers, and made off with $7,000.00 in ill-gotten foods, he has created on some scale a crime against others. Fast forward to today. If you are the sole surviving relative of great granddad, and there exists incontrovertable evidence that the robbery took place, should you repay Wells Fargo the $7,000 plus interest. Certainly, you did not commit the crime. I am certain that you would extend yourself in every possible way to the families of those who were robbed. But is your absolution dependent on your repayment of the debt imposed by the crime? "

Or are there other ways that those so disadvantaged, stricken, and afflicted by the sins of our forefathers can be compensated through social programs that provide a hand-up/hand-out to certain groups to accomplish individual goals?

Finally, is paying reparations about improving the situation for the INDIVIDUAL, or for the group that is represented by the individual.

Finally is reparation intended as restitution, punitive damages, or a means of providing an advantage to that individual in regaining socioeconomic status. I ask with sincerity because I don't know. I have heard advocates support all sorts of justifications. I just wonder what the real justification is.

Somehow, this message will categorize me as racist, to be sure. But truth be known, some of my best friends are from Pluto.

[noiseradio]

If you have friends from Pluto, you're DEFINITELY a racist. Those Plutonians can't be trusted.

Ok.


The Wells Fargo example is a stretch, but I get your point. I'd say that you might owe the money, if it could also be proved that you inherited either the money itself or the benefits of the money. In other words, if that money was used to invest in a new business by your ancestor (let's say he invested in Ford Motor Company) and that he received a hefty payoff from that investment, a fortune which bacame the foundation of your family's economy--then yes, I'd say you might owe a descendant the $7000. American citizens have benefitted financially from the forced and exploited labor of Africans and Asians, benefitted from the cultivation and inustrialization of Native American lands, etc. We've materially bennefitted, as a nation, from most of those past sins of the forefathers. Individually, perhaps we are not culpable. But collectively, we got here (to quote Trent Reznor) on the backs of the bruised. I think it's appropriate for us, as a nation, to make reparations where possible.

[alexv]

So, when the "nation" makes reparations, how is the money obtained? I've never quite figured that out. Anybody know what the actual proposal is? And why is this an American issue, or is it, I frankly have not followed the topic. Is there a movement afoot in South, Central and Latin America to get reparations from the white regimes of those countries, or even from Spain? Anything similar going on in Brazil vis a vis Portugal? I assume that white elites all over the world in countries where blacks were either enslaved or brutally repressed owe their successes in part to the efforts of Africans and their descendants.

[bambooneedle]

It wasn't off topic or on topic, it was a spelling correction. Touche to you, king of logic and correctness!! (Note to self: never refer to anything written here as a 'comment,' Boo says the only correct term is 'post'.)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhshiahddup!

[A rope leash]

If I am read carefully, it can be said that I do not doubt that a genocide of Jews happened in Germany during WWII. Perhaps I do doubt that the official story is totally and 100% accurate.

We know that governments keep secrets, and these secrets only are revealed years afterward if at all. We all know the nasty things that our own government denies doing but it is clear that is is engaged in...I'm talking right now about torture and killing of innocent Iraqis, "collatoral damage" or otherwise. The actual truth may never be revealed, but we can pretty much be certain from reading international reports that our moral compass is spinning to Hell.

Now, I happen to think that if you believe everything the government and media present as truth to be 100% factual, then you are most likely a fucking idiot. It has been shown over and over that governments act in secret to avoid real-time scrutiny. Just because a person is taught something in school does not make it actual, it just means that the official story has been codified.

It goes by who is trustworthy, in my view. The American government as it currently is does not have my trust, nor does the lying and divisive major media.

The labor of slaves is well worth something, and should be paid to the ancestors. Why don't we take some of the billions we give to Israel and give it to some homeless folks right here at home? No, we are doing exactly the opposite, because it's Israel first in the US Congress.

There is no sin in doubting or questioning anything. There is folly, however, in going along blindly.

[Extreme Honey]

We are sayamese if you pleese... we are sayamese if you don't pleese.

I didn't write this!

[BlueChair]

Anyways...

Today I learned that ice wine mixed with brandy is quite good (okay, so that was last night). But yeah.

[selfmademug]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhshiahddup!

Well I can hardly fault you on spelling. That's perfect!

I learned that I can tickle my son's toes just by looking at them.

[Goody2Shoes]

I was pleasantly surprised to learn today that my children actually buy my Omniscient and Omnipotent Mom schtick. I wonder how long that will last?

[laughingcrow]

Today I learned how to make gingerbread

[crash8_durham]

I learned the the hardest thing in the world to do is make miter cuts for crown molding. WTF?

[A rope leash]

You need a coping saw.

[Otis Westinghouse]

I was pleasantly surprised to learn today that my children actually buy my Omniscient and Omnipotent Mom schtick. I wonder how long that will last?

Another week. How did you manage that little feat?

I learned a new Spanish recipe today. From a Galician source. Puchero de jarretes asados. 'Jarrete' = shin, in this case of beef. You marinade it overnight in white wine and garlic, and then brown it good and proper the next morning in sizzling oil. Add heaps of sliced onions to the oil once the beef has been removed, sling it all in the oven on 160 C for an hour and a half or more, and you should have the tenderest, loveliest bit of beef shin ever! Well I'm only up to the marinade part of it, so tomorrow will learn if it tastes as good as I'm hoping. It better as we have friends coming round!

[noiseradio]

I learned that WHAR won't fuck off, even when I ask him to fuck off and stop pm'ing me.

[miss buenos aires]

I learned that when you've been hanging out by yourself for a week, there's nothing nicer than your friends getting back into town and showing up on your doorstep.

[Goody2Shoes]

I was pleasantly surprised to learn today that my children actually buy my Omniscient and Omnipotent Mom schtick. I wonder how long that will last?

Another week. How did you manage that little feat?

That's the surprising part; I did nothing to manage it, at least in terms of any kind of conscious effort. I have my little act that I employ, mostly to amuse myself, never dreaming that anyone took it seriously. So yesterday, we had a bit of a sitaution, which was quickly settled, but then later I heard Offspring the Elder whispering to Offspring the Younger something like, "See? You'll never get away with that kind of story, when she says she sees all and knows all, she's not kidding!" Maybe they're not too smart! I'll enjoy my last week of glory, at any rate.

[bambooneedle]

In order to make a good Spanish tortilla, you need a good sized potato.

I also learnt a bit from a book about mexican corn tortillas and how they can make folks prone to vitamin deficiencies. But beans and chili goes down well with them and sangria followed by shots of vodka.

[Otis Westinghouse]

Not sure about the potato size, but you need to think more or less of stewing the potatoes in olive oil for max softness and taste.