"It's Needletime" a snappy little tune!

[Jack of All Parades]

Bambooneedle, against my better judgement I'm responding to your post. This isn't so much about your latest little "jibe" {notice the quotation marks}, but about your continued obsession with my posts. Here goes:

From your comments on my posts and those of others on the board, it's clear to me that you are one of those sad, little people who get their kicks in life from personalizing disagreements and making rude, snide remarks at your designated targets. Spewing your bile over the Net is probably your preferred avenue of relief for an otherwise sad existence.

Thankfully, you are an anomaly on this Board. I'm assuming you only stay on in the hope that folks like me come along, expressing their very personal reactions to music and other matters and looking for open and enthusiastic exchanges of viewpoints, but who in so doing present ready targets on whom you can pounce like some poisonous snake[brown, taipan], fangs on the alert, excited for the thrill of the strike.

I'm on your list. Too bad for me. But, ok, let's do this once, and only once, since folks like me in our 50s don't have enough time to waste on your kind, and have had too much past experience with your type to take them seriously.

So, here goes. Let's get down to your level. Get this through your nasty little head, you miserable Dylanoid: I don't give a rat's ass what you think of my knowledge of Dylan, or anything else for that matter. I give my thoughts on music, books or events, AS I PERCEIVE THEM, including PRETENTIOUS OR UNPRETENTIOUS QUOTATION MARKS. I welcome comments from other Board members that are civil in tone and not designed, as yours are, to inflame and personalize disagreements. I look forward to much future pleasure, and instruction as well, from those exchanges. I've gained immeasurably already in my short time on the Board. I will refrain, however, from your 'insights"[notice the quotation marks]. I learned a long time ago to avoid poisonous snakes.

[bambooneedle]

My jibes didn't come before you saw fit to crap on me before all, unprovoked, about five pages back in the Song Titles thread, repaying my posting of a youtube clip of a song you posted with your, "As he says, 'hey, look me over', I will stay with Bob - "Father Of Night." ", comment. Remember?

Now, what was the reason for this unprovoked attack by you, this easy swift dismissal? I don't know or care, but this was your standard. It's not mine, I have simply been dishing out a little comeuppance.


Apologize and I'll forget all about it.

[A rope leash]

Man, I just can't resist!

You guys need to take the gloves off and have a real bout. I've seen better fights between boy scouts!

Sjholmes...man, you are just asking for it. Why would you start a thread like this?

Bamb-man! He called you a sad-little! You're going to accept an apology for that?!

Ah, makes me nostalgic for the old days of BB and NoiseRadio and Mr. Average and SelfMadeMug. It used to be so easy to get a row going.

POW! Take that you freak!

Now it's all tea, crumpets, droll quips, and shy apologies.

Come on you shit-heads! Put 'em up!


(By the way, I think the song is about drugs and Elvis is a drug addict because he wrote it and sings it and plays the guitar.)






Sometimes I feel just like co-mitting a cr-ime!

[oily slick]

boy you're right about that ropey. you're startin to make more sense than anyone. scary. have you seen our "tower of song"? apparently created by accountants. mundane accountants. someone needs to cornhole this thing. take me now jesus. oh wait, jesus is dead. there we go. whoopee.

[Jack of All Parades]

Bambooneedle, if all this stems from a misreading of a song posting on a thread game then I am flabergasted. I have reviewed my post which you reference and am at a loss to see where any offense could be taken from my innocent words and song choice. You had taken the time to post a youtube clip which features Dylan performing the song "When The Night Comes Falling From the Sky". My exact wording was "As the man says 'hey look me over'" I will stay with Bob- "Father of Night". I assume you share a familiarity with the song for which you posted the clip and know that the lyric that I quoted in the post is sung by Dylan in the song. Furthermore, the quote was a double quote in that I was suggesting that readers of the post view the clip which you kindly provided, hence the 'hey look me over'. I also was choosing to stay with a Dylan song to continue the thread. As to how that can be construed in anyway as an attack upon yourself is difficult for me to understand.

In no way did I intend offense to you and if that was how you took it then I will apologize for that and that alone. I will never apologize for spiritedly defending myself. My posting was predicated on observed behavior and had you simply said at the time that you were bothered by my post I would have responded as now without the future need to express my disgust with your subsequent taunts. I truly do appreciate your civil response at this time and for myself am moving on as I hope you will, as well.

[bambooneedle]

You know, lies travel halfway around the world and have their intended impact before the truth gets out... it's pretty clear that now he is backpedalling and trying to obfuscate the situation with horseshit.

I didn't misread anything, I know the song like the back of my hand. Have a look at the lyrics and have a look at your post. But you would have by now, just are lying about it.

Remember, this is a guy who uses the University of Chicago Usage Guide for acceptable punctuation and posts long pretentious, but precise, paragraphs on Shakespeare in the book thread. And now he is trying to piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

Here's the lyric:
Well, I've walked two hundred miles, now look me over,
It's the end of the chase and the moon is high.
It won't matter who loves who,
You'll love me or I'll love you
When the night comes falling from the sky.

You didn't write, "As the man says 'hey look me over' ", you wrote: "As he says 'hey! look me over'- I will stay with Bob- "Father of Night" ". It was pretty clear what you were saying, and how my "Fuck. Off." response was entirely appropriate - that's why you said nothing.

[Jack of All Parades]

Unfortunately, still not clear what you are saying. I guess you fail to still understand how to use an ellipsis. Had I intended to quote the entire stanza I would have either used such punctuation or quoted the entire stanza. As is clearly shown I only punctuated the hey, look me over segment for purposes as previously stated of drawing people's interest in viewing the clip you had attached. The use of he[a pronoun] for man[a noun] is a moot point and of no bearing here. The he clearly refers to Dylan. That you seem to have insecurites about yourself has never been, is not now, nor will it be in the future a concern of mine. That you appear to be incapable of reading basic English or understanding its punctuation is clear. No obfuscation on my part or backpedaling. That I will no longer waste my time with you is clear to me.

[A rope leash]

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[A rope leash]

You guys need instruction in mindless destruction. Hey, oil...you just maligned the hipness of various posters, and no one has stepped up to challenge you. How very lame of them.

Bamboo...let me step in here to help. Sjholmes has said you can't render sense from English, but...

Unfortunately, still not clear what you are saying. You probably mean to say "IT'S not clear" I guess you fail to still understand how to use an ellipsis. You mean to say "still fail to understand" Had I intended to quote the entire stanza I would have either used such punctuation or quoted the entire stanza. As is clearly shown I only punctuated the hey, look me over segment for purposes as previously stated of drawing people's interest in viewing the clip you had attached. Use italics or quotation marks for the “hey look me over” part of this sentence. The use of he[a pronoun] for man[a noun] is a moot point and of no bearing here. Parenthesis ( ) would be the proper use here, not brackets.“Moot” means “no bearing here” so you said it twice. The he clearly refers to Dylan. The he? That you seem to have insecurites about yourself has never been, is not now, nor will it be in the future a concern of mine. Insecurites? That you appear to be incapable of reading basic English or understanding its punctuation is clear. No obfuscation on my part or backpedaling. Two “Ls” spells "backpedalling". That I will no longer waste my time with you is clear to me. "It is clear to me that I will no longer waste my time with you" would be the preferred structure.

...and that is how we get our digs in...

...or at least, it's my preferred method...killing them with their own words.

Feels good. Cleansing.

Carry on...

[bambooneedle]

What a hideous little fucker.

He doesn't get me going, Rope, that's all. Noiseradio etc at least had backbones.

[Jack of All Parades]

A Rope Leash, you have deftly punctured, and punctuated, this whole silly nonsense. Thank you for making me laugh at myself. It needs to be done once and awhile. The Python clip is a spot on coda for me to this silliness.

[Otis Westinghouse]

have you seen our "tower of song"? apparently created by accountants. mundane accountants

The kind of people who would enjoy turgid pap like Marillion, you mean?

[oily slick]

turgid pap Funk and Wagnalls defines that as a "large nipple". <i adore them.> *he comes when he's called ROPEY, woof.*

[A rope leash]

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[bambooneedle]

I'm hungry!

I agree with oily as well, the Tower of Song is pretty lame. This place has become such a shadow of its former self. It could be so much more. It could be a burgeoning hub of activity, a inspiring high energy window to so much. Why don't new posters join in? Because they poke their heads in here, see the likes of pretentious knobs like Sjhomes and alexv being humoured center stage, and think, "geez, what a bunch of saddos...".

It has become very insular in terms of what goes and what doesn't. I wouldn't mind seeing fevered opinions and some facts on Marillion or whatever it is as with Prefab Sprout rather than some poster whose opinions seem to carry some weight here slagging them and then that's pretty much the end of the conversation. I don't know whether it's turgid pap or not. I could read a thread and discover that they're great, or at least be diverted onto something related, but it's not going to happen. It's hard to get any new thread in The Annex happening now...

The fewer and fewer regular posters left (and I include myself there, though less so now) have become too familiar and comfortable with each other and the regular routines, passively parking their arses in front of the computer day by day and posting the same kind of stuff over and and over. Starting a new thread here on an unexpected topic is like an uncalled-for interruption now. I haven't started one for a while but in some recent instances it must have felt like speaking across a huge room and then getting gawked at by 20 people. Not the sort of stuff that potential new posters are going to get turned on by.

There are a few, I call them 'link' posters, like Otis, whose interests coincide with a lot of what goes on, and who act as the glue that maintains some coherence and vitality in discussions. Who Shot Sam and BlueChair, too, but they don't seem to posting much now. When there was more activity most of the regular posters left were. But the remaining link posters can only have that function so long as they are interested in the subjects(s) at hand and have the energy for it. What happens, however, is that tryhards like Sjhomes come along and parasite off of them, constantly seeking their approval and attention - by chance liking the same authors, and books and cds... you get the picture... ultimately draining the energy of the link posters.

And when they turn around and act like snobs, posting pretentious crap, implying that they're better than the average humble poster, and it remains unchecked or is let slide, it has a doubly decimating effect. It is the duty of posters in general to keep a check on this stuff. If someone is getting on your tits, don't suffer in silence or always rely on someone like me, speak up!

[Otis Westinghouse]

Fair enough to point out hypocrisy or what seems to you like a wayward opinion (e.g. someone posting the worst band/song I have ever seen in a Tower here having the gall to take a holier-than-thou attitude to other people's choices), and nothing wrong with a bit of arguing, but why all the mud-slinging? Isn't YouTube a better place for that? I for one welcome Christopher and find his enthusiasm and keenness to share his interests in books and music both interesting and refreshing. And he's the only person here who's also a Pynchon fan, for crying out loud. Why the aggression and the swearing? Alexv has been a regular poster here for ages and has probably contributed more interesting stuff to the books thread than anyone else.

Ropey, whose return I welcome as he's one of a kind, especially on politics, wants to see it kick off, but I can't say I agree.

[bambooneedle]

Alexv has been a regular poster here for ages and has probably contributed more interesting stuff to the books thread than anyone else.

So you would like me to say what I find objectionable about him?

He is so in love with his every little self-absorbed thought and opinion, often about stuff that is way out of his depth, and he tries sooooo hard. It's painful.

As for Sjhom, well, he's hoisted himself by his own petard, what can I add?

Why suffer fools gladly? It may suit YOU to have those two clowns constantly making fools of themselves in their attempts to appear erudite and make you look good in comparison in the book thread, or they may give you plenty to say about cds you like because they want to, er.. look up to you, but their undeniable overall snobbery at the reader's expense comes at a price. I'd happily trade them for the dozens of posters with demeanors not too unlike Pophead's or BWAP's or spooky's or ice nine's or mood's or migdd's that they've probably scared away.

[Otis Westinghouse]

I see no snobbery, only people expressing their opinions and sharing their reading with us (same as Pophead does). If I had time, I would love to follow up some of their suggestions, but failing that, it's still good to learn about new stuff.

There are surely causes more deserving of your wrath.

[invisible Pole]

Boo, for fuck's sake, why are you calling people 'fools' and 'clowns' so easily ? They just write about music they like and books they are enthusiastic about.
You may not share their opinion, but is it enough to call them snobs and pretenders, or to instantly assume they "attempt to appear erudite" ?
The level of anger and spitefulness you're showing is really beyond me.
Look in the mirror, man, and ask yourself where all the vitriol comes from.

[alexv]

Ugh, needletime indeed. It must have been about 3 years ago that needlehead first got all lathered up about me. What was it? I'm thinking that it was a post where I criticized one of his adored ones. Was it springsteen? Probably. Anyway, who cares. I responded to him at that time and told him that i would never address his posts again. It was obvious the kind of person he is, and as Chris noted in his "Needletime" post (brilliant) middle-aged folks don't have time for nasty, insecure people like him. He has not since then had any impact on my enjoyment of and participation in this site. I post about things I care about. I love books and Elvis (though not as much as before) and enjoy the exchange of ideas that goes on here. It's obvious enough that only insecure people develop personal antagonisms over exchanges of 'opinions".

I'm not trying to impress anybody. I read what I read because that's what I read. I advised Needlehead a long time ago to ignore my posts. But of course his insecure little heart doesn't allow that. My favorite Needlenose moment was when one of my favorite posters of yore, El Vez, said something about swarthy spaniards or something to that effect. Needlepuss went nuts. Accusations of racism, ethnicism and the like flew all over the place. Vez, probably as perplexed as the rest of the Board, quietly disappeared. That was bad. Can you imagine if Needlefeet took the advice of one of his heroes and for just one day stepped into our shoes and had to see what a drag it is to be someone who specializes in personal attacks and yet takes offense at a joking aside from someone like Vez?

My advice to Chris: stay on the Board, keep posting, be yourself. Don't let insecure posters win. But you see the one bad thing that's happened is that we've already let Needleheart get his kicks. As Chris said in his Needletime opener, what he wants is for folks to take him seriously, and sadly this is what we've all done. A waste.

[A rope leash]

An internet forum is many different things to many different people. For some, it’s a way of politely connecting with people who share the same interests. In that way, it’s like a church or social club. For others, an internet forum is a way of seeking out others with the same interests as an avenue to fun and entertainment. In that way, it’s like a bar or nightclub.

Personally, I can see the source of Bamboo’s grumpiness. It comes out of boredom and disappointment. Like me, he probably comes here with the intention of finding stimulating discussion or entertaining banter. What he often finds, however, is bland expression of personal tastes.

As is well known, I have always shied away from the “which Beatles song do you like best” sort of thread, gravitating always toward the “which political hack is less evil” sort of thread. It seems that over time those who were willing to spar on such divisive subjects have gone away, making this forum a more boring place, at least for those of us who are seeking spirited discourse. I’ve always admitted my shit-stirring ways…and they are plainly evident in this thread, though I still have not stirred up the shit-storm I was hoping for. Remember that kid I always flamed with just because he was bugging everyone no one else would take the bait? Everyone said he should be ignored, but to me he was a challenge. It’s the sort of thing I do.

Another thing I do here is post selected writings from my dented psyche. I don’t do this for any other reason than to publicize my pain. This is a good forum for such things…obscure, but intelligent. Alas, though…Bamboo is beginning to find such personal musings trite and redundant, and in a certain way I agree. But, I cannot dismiss the power of the replies to such postings. Literally, it helps to talk to someone about it.

It’s true I might bite you in the ass though…but that’s where the disease of internet forum compulsive obsessive disorder must be treated. It is completely ridiculous to take an anonymous forum personally. After all, everything I’ve ever said might be fiction or falsehood, designed to get your dander up. You don’t really know, do you? The thing is, if someone says you're boring, stupid, silly, or wrong on an internet forum, that’s just par for the environment. If you decide to challenge or argue with someone, you should see the thread as entertainment for the reader, not a personal insult.

That’s all I want…to be entertained. Yes, I’d rather read a knock-down-drag-out argument than read about someone’s tastes in music. But there’s room for everything in a forum, isn’t there?

Besides, this place is really quite tame.

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http://www.zappa.com/forum

http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewt ... 8&start=75

[Otis Westinghouse]

Not sure it's ridiculous to take a personal attack seriously as much as it is to use a forum to post one. Spirited discourse, fine, personal attack, why?

Come on then, give us some stimulating discussion...

[so lacklustre]

You wouldn't find me making personal attacks...... or any stimulating discussion come to that....

[A rope leash]

http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... f=4&t=7995

http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... f=2&t=8002

The above links are fairly recent attempts made by me to turn the conversation toward something I might find interesting. This is in addition to my openly vented spleen on Tin Pan Alley.

The thing is...what one poster thinks of as stimulating discourse, another will see as boring debate. A lot of posters here have lost whatever zeal they might have once had for controversy, and have settled into more docile roles. Even a rope leash, but I might just be getting old.

O sure...a personal attack ain't right, but it is anonymous, isn't it? So, why take it personally? Belly up and fire back...a fight is a fight. Some people enjoy a good bout. Boxers make good money.

Also, if someone has said something you find to be even remotely interesting, engage. Lately I'm reading history and going through some tremendous personal changes. I'd like to talk more about that, and to hear about other people's lives and experiences...and while I do appreciate the responses I get (over 900 views on my latest at Tin Pan!)...I do wish we could "get into it more", kind of like how this thread is progressing.




Hey SoLack...how's it going?

[Otis Westinghouse]

Some thing are interesting to read and leave there, e.g. Marco Polo. I did enjoy that 'Cat Fud' cartoon though, I have to say.

Anonymity yes and no.

Stimulate me, baby!