The Essential Bob Dylan

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:49 pm

I just finished listening to the "Essential Bob Dylan" album.

"Hurricane" is really great, but I'm not really digging the rest. I remember being very impressed by maybe three others...

Should I just keep listening to it?

Post by **BlueChair** » Thu May 27, 2004 7:43 am

As much as I love Elvis, I will always consider Bob Dylan to be the single greatest singer/songwriter of all-time. His music has influenced me more than anybody.

I suspect that as you mature you will grow to appreciate his music more. I'm not a fan of Dylan compilations because most of his proper albums are cohesive works, like Blood On The Tracks.

Bob And Charlotte · Post by **Bob And Charlotte** » Thu May 27, 2004 10:37 am

i´ll second what bluechair said. plus, i do believe that Dylan is even greater then the Beatles.

its not that you only 'should' keep listen to this wehitandrun.
YOU NEED TO!!!

migdd · Post by **migdd** » Thu May 27, 2004 11:35 am

I'd venture to guess that anybody answering the second or third choice in this poll has not dug very deeply in Dylan's catalog. EC and most other contemporary songwriter's could hardly even exist (or would be writing very, very differently than they do) without Dylan's influence.

alexv · Post by **alexv** » Thu May 27, 2004 12:59 pm

I don't personally know Dylan so I can't respond to the poll's "racist" category as it applies to him in his everyday life, but his public positions on race I think cannot be questioned. This is a man who way back in the early sixties before it became fashionable in a lot of circles to advocate for civil rights of african-americans (then called negroes in even the most liberal circles, by the way, in case the accusations of racism come from his having used that term in those days) was a vocal leader of the folk movement which prominently pressed for the rights of african-americans. He performed in integrated groups (which was far from common in the early sixties), wrote songs decrying segregation and as far as I know has never exhibited racist opinions. Why the racist category? Have I missed some new revelation? "Horrible singing voice" I could live with as an alternative.

IMHO Dylan is such a towering influence on all of modern popular music that a poll that asks whether he is overrated or whether he "rocks" does him a disservice (in the same way that some of the other postings on this site about various aspects of his work do).

The man started out by taking folk music to a whole other level in the early sixties. This in itself would have been a great accomplishment since the folk songs that he wrote and those he inspired were instrumental in focussing attention at a crucial time in our history to some of the pressing social issues that confronted us then (race, vietnam, the sexual revolution). Now, people who don't like folk music with its earnest messages may be turned off by the early Dylan, since that music definitely does not "rock" but that's not what Dylan is or was about.

But that's not the only Dylan. Then he turns his back on folk, causing an uproar in the folk establishment, and single-handedly creates the "singer/songwriter" by writing extraordinarily poetic and literate songs that many have tried to copy, few with any success. An unfortunate consequence of this achievement of his, by the way, is that for almost 40 years now we have been bombarded with albums by (mostly) young males with guitars, two or three chords, a college level education and a desire to tell us about their meanignless lives. On the plus side, however, the Beatles would never have done "Rubber Soul" without him. Meaning that the face of rock and roll would not be what it is today and we would all be singing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" and its progeny into infinity (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Now, all of this would have been enough to seal his place in modern music, but he goes on to surprise everyone by putting out one of the truly great records of the past ten years,"Time out of Mind" when nearing 60!! Just to take note of this achivement, ask yourself what his contemporaries have been doing recently (think McCartney, the Stones, Paul Simon, the Who etc.). And to top it all off, the man has single-handedly now created a new cool way for a sixtyish music icon to go out: no he's not sitting at home collecting royalties and killing himself with drink and drugs, he's been on tour (in a good old tour bus) for about 5 to 10 years just playing music the way he wants to.

Sadly, those who see him now are hearing someone whose voice (always bad to begin with) is now almost shot, and many ask what the whole fuss is about. They need to do what WHAR is doing which is to listen to the man's work, but I agree with Blue that compilations are not the place to start. Go to the records, man, start with the early ones and keep going. Anyone who does that may discover that he hates folk music or that he hates his voice, or that he finds him self-indulgent and mysoginistic, or that the music is not melodic enough, or that he's too damn cryptic with songs that are too long and go nowhere. And those are all valid criticisms. But if you have Dylan's history straight, you can still hold those opinions and not consider the man "overrated". His place in music is so powerful and his influence so strong that those judgements, even if valid in some cases, are meaningless when it comes to evaluating him.

Bob And Charlotte · Post by **Bob And Charlotte** » Thu May 27, 2004 1:43 pm

quite impressive alexv.
you done a great work

bobster · Post by **bobster** » Thu May 27, 2004 2:14 pm

Or, to put it more bluntly -- I don't think you can underrate Dylan's influence on popular music in general, and this thing we call "rock" in particular.

Before Dylan, rock and roll was -- with almost no exceptions -- always about girls or boys, cars or surfing, etc. After Dylan started doing wrong, suddenly everyone -- for better and worse -- was writing about everything.

Since then, of course, we've mostly devolved, though we can add the new hot topic of bling-bling.

BTW -- Who's calling Dylan racist anyway? Seems a strange accusation. Did he get into a drunken argument with Bonnie Bramlett while I wasn't paying attention?

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Thu May 27, 2004 2:26 pm

Hah, no. The reason I picked the "racist" option, was simply because I was listening to "Hurricane" while making this. I heard the ole' "n-word" and throew that option is.

I understand he isn't a racist(well, I'm just saying that), so, in advance... please don't lecture me about disservicing his image for that poll option.

El Vez · Post by **El Vez** » Thu May 27, 2004 3:31 pm

wehitandrun wrote:Hah, no. The reason I picked the "racist" option, was simply because I was listening to "Hurricane" while making this. I heard the ole' "n-word" and throew that option is.

I understand he isn't a racist(well, I'm just saying that), so, in advance... please don't lecture me about disservicing his image for that poll option.

That's just plain ignorant. I wouldn't presume to lecture anyone but I will say that it is never a good idea to nonchalantly add "Racist" to an internet poll just for shits and giggles because that is dangerously close to libel territory. Who was it you told to drop dead a couple of months ago? Jackson? Thank your lucky stars that you didn't get reported for that because a litigious person could have potentially made a LOT of trouble for you.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:28 pm

Oh yes. Another case of over-the-top E.C. boardism.

I never would have expected this from you, El Vez. You disappoint me.

I think the word "Nigger" is something that SHOULDN'T be thrown around lightly.

Funny how "Nigger" and "racist" pair together so well.

Ignorant? Then fill me in. Don't threaten me.

cosmos · Post by **cosmos** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:28 pm

Too bad, WHAR....you throw that crap out there, you're gonna get lectured. Here are the lyrics "in question":

All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance.
The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy ni****.
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger.
And though they could not produce the gun,
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.

Consider the context in which the word was used. Next time do your homework. It's serious stuff when you even remotely associate someone with racism, even in a poll.

More homework you should've done: Dylan was married to an African-American woman and they have a child together.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:30 pm

cosmos wrote: More homework you should've done: Dylan was married to an African-American woman and they have a child together.

Under no circumstances should I have ever done that research. That is ridiculous.

Aw, I took it out of context? Reminds me of what you people love to do.

Yes, "YOU PEOPLE", I'm a racist now.

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:32 pm

...and I ain't dropped dead either......... yet

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:32 pm

Okay.

cosmos · Post by **cosmos** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:36 pm

I don't think you're a racist WHAR, but I think you could've chosen your poll choices a little more carefully, that's all.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:41 pm

I apologize cosmos.

The first person to speak with reason.

cosmos · Post by **cosmos** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:51 pm

No apology needed, WHAR. It just kinda struck me strangely, as that's the very first time I've ever seen racism evenly remotely associated (implied or not) with Bob Dylan. I may have overreacted, and I'm sorry.

It may take you a while to get into Dylan...didn't happen for me until I was 22 or so. But when I did get him, the floodgates opened. I suggest you print out the lyrics for some of those tunes. Read them as you would read poetry, out loud and without the music. Then add the music later. That may change your view a little bit.

And if you don't wanna buy the cds right away, go to a library. I'm sure they have some Dylan cds there you can check out. It's really worth giving a try.....

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Thu May 27, 2004 4:54 pm

I'm thinking I'm going to buy "Blonde On Blonde" and "Blood On The Tracks".

I've been told they're gems, so they must be worth the money.

Boy With A Problem · Post by **Boy With A Problem** » Fri May 28, 2004 4:53 am

Blonde on Blonde is my all-time favorite album. Blood on the Tracks is a masterpiece. This is the best money you can possibly spend on music.

I was mystfied completely by the racist thing, and figured because you mentioned Hurricane it was from the "crazy nigger" line. In 6th grade (this is probably 1974) I went to a birthday party for a black friend in the neighborhood (this was in Tacoma - not lily white New Hampshire where we moved a year later) and among the 45s I brought along to the party was "Hurricane" - does anyone remember the single? (I know we're all familiar with the song) - it had a balck and white picture sleeve of Carter in his trunks and gloves - and because of the length of the song, it was edited into two parts - a side and b side. Anyway, I can quite clearly remember it getting a bad reaction, not only from "nigger" - "son of a bitch" and "ass" didn't go over well either. (the birthday girl's father had all those Redd Foxx albums, so it wasn't like they were prudes).....but I think "The Night Chicago Died" and "Smokin' In The Boys Room" were bigger hits than Zim on that day.

Bob And Charlotte · Post by **Bob And Charlotte** » Fri May 28, 2004 7:07 am

Blonde on Blonde is the best record ever made.

forget about 'Astral Weeks', 'Revolver', 'Kind of Blue', 'This Year´s Model' or even 'Highway 61' and 'Bringing it all back home'.

Blood on the tracks is the best record of the 70´s. (and the 80´s, 90´s and 00´s

only few Dylan or Beatles records can stand as tall as this one)

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Fri May 28, 2004 12:45 pm

The wonderful cosmos is sending me a free Blonde On Blonde.

I don't think I'll ever call it a better album than Armed Forces, but I'm hoping to atleast love it a tad bit.

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The Essential Bob Dylan