The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Pretty self-explanatory
cwr
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by cwr »

Sorry, didn't post the link because it's the other top topic on this forum, figured it would be redundant:
http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... f=2&t=5568
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Hawksmoor »

cwr wrote:I will never understand the general antipathy towards NR #1. I just don't get it. It's a really terrific opening track that sounds like the smartest track The Traveling Wilburys never wrote. Yet it's probably sparked as much dislike among EC fans as any track I can remember.
Agree, I also find this antipathy somewhat baffling. It's unlikely to ever make my Costello Top Ten, but it's an amusing, fairly engaging mid-tempo rocker with some entertaining wordplay in the lyrics. I can see that there's not a lot to get overly passionate about, but there's not much to actively dislike either?
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by cwr »

Exactly! It wouldn't be among my absolute favorites, but it's a good song and I can't imagine any song on the album would make a better opening track.

To me, it's almost like having people complain about "Let Them All Talk" but liking the rest of Punch The Clock. Or hating "Down Among The Wines And Spirits" but loving Secret, Profane & Sugar Cane. It's hard for me to understand why so many fans have taken an instant dislike to it.

As for "National Ransom No. 2," having listened to it again, I'd say it falls squarely into a certain kind of song and sound that Elvis likes to indulge from time to time. Given the choice between writing a hooky pop song and a more dissonant kind of aggressive "art song", there is a part of EC that I think almost willfully prefers to do something like the latter. I think he's more drawn to stuff that's challenging to the listener, that almost dares you to dislike it, and feels less comfortable putting out stuff that is instantly likable. (Hence his affection for certain songs like "Uncomplicated", which still make it into the setlist in place of literally dozens of songs that would probably be more crowd-pleasing.)
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by verbal gymnastics »

It's experimental like the remixes around the time of All This Useless Beauty but moreso in line with those on When I Was Cruel.

It's an interesting take and maybe Elvis is in experimental mode again - like at Meltdown (when he was trying out tracks from When I Was Cruel) or as he is at the moment with the iPad.

I love the I Hate Elvis bit at the end of the video.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by krm »

I think it is completely weird with the Swedish Dance orchestra postcards at around 4:00.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Jeremy Dylan »

It's an interesting arrangement, but I'd rather listen to the rowdy, live rock'n'roll version with Stuart Duncan going all Hendrix on his violin.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by johnfoyle »

Some cheap 'n cheerful photos of images from this video-

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Is this Ruth Etting?

http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... f=2&t=8452

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http://www.amazon.com/Blondie-Iscariot- ... B000GLN0Y6


Image

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This is from the Paris production of Steve Nieve's Welcome To The Voice ( 2008)


Image

Image

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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Poor Deportee »

Great that EC is finally figuring out the uses of this internet thing. :wink:

Far be it from me to turn down a freebee, but I must say that I don't find this track too interesting, mostly because it's too derivative of Tom Waits. But nevertheless - thanks EC!

The song remains weak. Nieve's apparently oblivious (or else pointless) rehash of 'You Belong to Me' doesn't help, but I think the real problem is the dismal pre-chorus, which gets lamer as it progresses, sucking all the life from the song (in both versions!). A song like this needs drive and momentum. Instead it falters uselessly in the pre-bridge, making the chorus sound like a huge act of heavy-lifting; and in general it sounds like middle-aged guys trying to rock out, a conditioned worsened IMHO by the Classic Rawk guitar playing on the album cut. Bottom line: he should have cut the pre-chorus altogether and gone straight for a verse-chorus structure.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by watercamp »

Whoa!

For sure a touch of ...Cruel...inspiration.

No top 10 for me either but another interesting step along the EC Highway.

Here's the link to the band/singer Thor.
http://www.thorcentral.com/
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by MOJO »

Wow, Elvis is bound to be an internet sensation with this video! it's a 5-star review from the Hollywood folk, I am sure of it. He is bound to land a multi-million music contract with this single. A star is born, and coincidentally, not too long after Kim Kardashian (who is she by the way?) announced her entry into the music business. Wow, this business is really magical and creative. What's next... Charlie Sheen releasing a single titled "Winning"?
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by docinwestchester »

MOJO wrote: What's next... Charlie Sheen releasing a single titled "Winning"?
Already done by Jimmy Fallon. This is outstanding:
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com ... 11/1308280

MOJO wrote: not too long after Kim Kardashian (who is she by the way?) announced her entry into the music business
How long before her album outsells National Ransom? I'll put the over/under at 2 days.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by MOJO »

Ha! The Winning fragrance bottle has the same shape as a bottle of tequila. Actually, that's a great cross-sell product for the hit single, "Winning". (I hope CS gets some help. Seems like he has a few things to work on.)

Kim Kardashian - I really don't get the whole phenomenon. Who is she, where did she come from and does she have any talent? I'm sure her new single music sales will exceed National Ransom and No. 2. The music industry is desperate to make money so rather than tap into the talent pool of REAL ARTISTS / MUSICIANS, they find it easier to create new business opportunities around someone who has a certain level of popularity and fan base. What a bunch of sellouts. Douche-baggery abound in the music industry! She probably isn't make much $ deal, either... bogus, man.
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docinwestchester
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by docinwestchester »

MOJO wrote: Kim Kardashian - I really don't get the whole phenomenon. Who is she, where did she come from and does she have any talent?
Two words: Sex tape. Followed by reality show, and the rest is history.

Maybe our man needs to follow this path to success. The conventional approach is no longer working.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by cwr »

I don't think the "You Belong To Me" quote is pointless-- Elvis may act coy about it in interviews as if it was an accident, but I think it's another one of his musical in-jokes. The whole idea of the song is that we're all paying off the national ransom, and there's the hidden message from the ones we're paying it to: YOU BELONG TO ME. (I'll never be convinced that it isn't a deliberate musical reference, given the way EC has talked about little musical in-jokes in songs over the years. He's too much of a music nerd to not notice the similarity...)

As for the "Classic Rawk guitar", this is obviously just subjective personal taste, but hearing Marc Ribot and Jerry Douglas face-off doesn't sound like a bunch of old guys phoning it in or trying to reclaim their glory days. It may not be your cup of tea, but I find it hard to be snarky about such fine playing-- it's the kind of internet sarcasm that you'd be embarrassed about if you had to repeat it in front of the musicians in question...

W/r/t NR #2 -- it starts off as a Tom Waits-type thing, but at a certain point it sounds like something else. Blade Runner? The score to an early 80s Michael Mann film? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it doesn't end up feeling quite so much like a Waits track....
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by MOJO »

doc - Thanks for the Kim K. bio. That bio says it all and it only took a few words - well done! As for our man getting into that business, HA... I'd like to see more spoofs from Mr. Quickley... or quickly.. sorry forget the proper spelling. I'm out!
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Ypsilanti »

docinwestchester wrote:
MOJO wrote: Kim Kardashian - I really don't get the whole phenomenon. Who is she, where did she come from and does she have any talent?
Two words: Sex tape. Followed by reality show, and the rest is history.

Maybe our man needs to follow this path to success. The conventional approach is no longer working.
:lol: Hah! I have a feel, though, an Elvis sex tape would be just like an Elvis album...brilliant, accomplished, etc--oozing creativity--loaded with tons of interesting ideas--demonstrating both technical proficiency and great passion for the task at hand...and yet somehow the whole thing would go right over the heads of the masses. They would accuse him of trying every position in the book, rather than just finding one he's good at and doing it over and over again. The audience for such a tape would be small, but incredibly dedicated. I don't see him as a Sex Tape Superstar.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by the_platypus »

Ypsilanti wrote: :lol: Hah! I have a feel, though, an Elvis sex tape would be just like an Elvis album...brilliant, accomplished, etc--oozing creativity--loaded with tons of interesting ideas--demonstrating both technical proficiency and great passion for the task at hand...and yet somehow the whole thing would go right over the heads of the masses. They would accuse him of trying every position in the book, rather than just finding one he's good at and doing it over and over again. The audience for such a tape would be small, but incredibly dedicated. I don't see him as a Sex Tape Superstar.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by verbal gymnastics »

Ypsilanti wrote:I don't see him as a Sex Tape Superstar.
Just a random question for you Ypsilanti. Who on this board would you see as a sex tape superstar?

Perhaps a whole thread could be opened to discuss this :lol:
Who’s this kid with his mumbo jumbo?
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Poor Deportee »

cwr wrote:I don't think the "You Belong To Me" quote is pointless-- Elvis may act coy about it in interviews as if it was an accident, but I think it's another one of his musical in-jokes. The whole idea of the song is that we're all paying off the national ransom, and there's the hidden message from the ones we're paying it to: YOU BELONG TO ME. (I'll never be convinced that it isn't a deliberate musical reference, given the way EC has talked about little musical in-jokes in songs over the years. He's too much of a music nerd to not notice the similarity...)

As for the "Classic Rawk guitar", this is obviously just subjective personal taste, but hearing Marc Ribot and Jerry Douglas face-off doesn't sound like a bunch of old guys phoning it in or trying to reclaim their glory days. It may not be your cup of tea, but I find it hard to be snarky about such fine playing-- it's the kind of internet sarcasm that you'd be embarrassed about if you had to repeat it in front of the musicians in question...

W/r/t NR #2 -- it starts off as a Tom Waits-type thing, but at a certain point it sounds like something else. Blade Runner? The score to an early 80s Michael Mann film? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it doesn't end up feeling quite so much like a Waits track....
Hmm, I suppose you might have a point about 'You Belong to Me.' Didn't think of that.

I'm not disputing the technical prowess of the guitar work. In truth, I don't give two bits about technical prowess - otherwise I'd be stocking up on Rush records. It's feeling and songcraft that matter to me, and I'm just saying that I don't find the guitar-work particularly exciting in that context and don't find that it redeems (or serves) the song one bit. Yes, being a non-confrontational fellow, I'd be unlikely to say that to Marc Ribot's face. :roll: In any case, the guitar is not the main problem on that track; as recorded, it's a lifeless song, period.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Jack of All Parades »

I am firmly in PD's camp when it comes to this song, in whatever incarnation, #1 or #2. Was there actually before this recent post. Have found this a dreadful song from day one and have consistently said so. It is the one song on the album that I skip everytime I play the record. My wife is a pretty good bullshit artist when it comes to auditory items. She has always served as a bell weather for me, a talent she inherited from her father with his ears for dross and for gold. Whenever this song came on the radio last fall as our local station WDST gave the single airplay, she would immediately run 'pell- mell and harum-scarum' to the radio to switch the station and I did not mind one bit when she did that. It bottom line is a banal, insipid tune.

PD is quite right to note the overwrought lines that compose that pre bridge- they over indulgently gloss over a simple idea. And it is a one note idea both in execution and in concept. The musical conceit of the quote to "You Belong to Me" is facile and easily spotted. I, too, am not one for guitar pyro techniques, and even though the playing of both Ribot and Douglas is professional, it adds nothing ultimately to the song other than the sense that it was felt needed to cue in the obligatory guitar solo part in the song. I can just see too many middle aged wanna be rockers out their doing their 'air' solos as this tune blasts out of their speakers. EC would have done better, I think, to have couched his anger and resentment at the Economic meltdown caused by our bankers, financiers and government in sharply drawn vignettes that would have etched much further the pain and suffering and hurt caused by these institutions on our lives[ and held the mirror up to our own complicity in this tragedy] than in the one note rant he ultimately released. It mars an otherwise delightful album for me.

One final note, I would gladly express these same sentiments, face to face, with the artist if given the chance. I have never been one to say something in private, or public, for that matter and then reverse myself in direct conversation with another party. I would stand behind what I write the same as what I speak. My criticisms and concerns would be the same whether in printed form or spoken.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by bronxapostle »

the song is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Poor Deportee »

Christopher, I wouldn't mind a musical rant, in principle (I've written a few myself in my time!). But if you're going to rant, it can't be plodding, musically unfocused, and ham-handedly dull. This one is. So I completely agree with your assessment.

On another note: since I now appear to be 'sitting in judgement and bitching' :lol: perhaps I should clarify. Were I to meet an artist I admire, whether it be EC, Ribot, or anyone else, I wouldn't presume to begin the encounter by dredging up those parts of their work that I find less than convincing, any more than I would (say) inveigh against a prime minister whose policies I disagree with, were I to meet him in a social setting. If, however, the song (or policy!) in question were to come up, then I would politely demur. In this sense the whole question of whether 'you'd say that to X's face' is a silly hypothetical. I will never engage Elvis Costello in a sustained enough conversation to reach a point where critical remarks about his work would make any social sense. The whole line of inquiry is, ultimately, a red herring - if not a rhetorical device to silence critical disucssion.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by Jack of All Parades »

PD-like you would be socially adept enough to know when the right moment, if ever, was present to elaborate on criticisms. Like you, the point for me is what I write and think here would be no different if given the opportunity in polite conversation to discuss appropriately the same concerns with an artist. That will never happen for me with EC and you adroitly note the 'red herring' aspect of using it as an argument for bolstering up any conceivable worth in this particular song.
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by verbal gymnastics »

Interesting arguments.

I love a lot of EC's work and there are bits I don't care for. However I'm not sure what there would be to be gained by discussing the bits I don't like with Elvis (or anyone else's work that i admire) if the opportunity arose.
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Re: The Return Of The Imposter: National Ransom No.2

Post by bronxapostle »

right VG....why obsess over a stray song you're NOT fond of!!!
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