The Gibson Interview: Elvis Costello, Dec. '10

[johnfoyle]

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/F ... ello-1222/

The Gibson Interview: Elvis Costello
Bryan Wawzenek

12.22.2010

Elvis Costello has just released his 33rd studio album… and it might be his last. Feeling that the era of the album was ending, the rock veteran says he threw everything he had into National Ransom, a double-LP, single CD as wildly varied and absolutely intriguing as Costello’s career. With T-Bone Burnett at the helm, Costello recorded both with country music virtuosos as well as his rock band, the Imposters. The sessions also returned the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer to Nashville, the same place he and the Attractions made Almost Blue, nearly 30 years ago. Costello recently took time out of his schedule to chat with Gibson.com about the first time he came to Nashville, his approach to live performances and why he may never make another album.

First, I want to congratulate you for the Grammy nomination for “Kiss Like Your Kiss.”

Somebody sent me a message about that and I said, “What nomination, I’m not even eligible.” [Laughs] So it was kind of a surprise, but I’m very pleased for Lucinda [Williams]. I think it’s one of the most beautiful songs she’s ever written and I just try to stay out of her way. They wanted us both to sing it. Truthfully, it sounds way better on her new record when she sings it alone. No, I’m not being falsely modest. It genuinely does sound better as a solo. But it’s a great song and I’m glad she got acknowledged.

Growing up in England, what was your mental picture of Nashville?

Um, well I don’t know that I had one. I knew that it wasn’t exclusively country music. I did know that because I knew that Dylan had recorded Blonde on Blonde there. I won’t say growing up, but as a young musician, I really loved Charlie Rich. I knew Charlie Rich made records in Nashville and I didn’t really think they were country records even though Billy Sherrill produced a bunch of them, you know? They were kind of like sophisticated R&B records. I guess you’d call it that. Some of them were ballad records. Anyway… and Ray Price, what kind of singer is he? Started out certainly as a country singer, but, I mean, he’s such an elegant singer, there’s all kinds of music. I mean, you know, Hank Garland. Gary Burton, these jazz records. I think it’s just that it’s a rich musical town, that’s the truth. Over the years, there’s been different movements in country music that I’ve retrospectively become aware of. I have my favorites among the recording artists. I have to be honest, of the ones that record in Nashville, I don’t think of so many on the current country charts as being among my favorites, but that’s ever the way, you know? It’s not being made for me to listen to, it’s for somebody else.

When you first came to Nashville, did it meet your expectations?

It did in many ways. I don’t know if you know how it was I first came to Nashville.

No, I don’t.

Well, it was somewhat unusual in that I had released my first album and I think my second album was maybe just out and I was in Europe doing shows. We were probably only playing clubs at that point. And I got a call in Copenhagen to say that I’d been invited to play on a George Jones record, that they were going to cut my song, “Stranger in the House,” which had been an outtake from My Aim is True, my first album. We had left it off the album because, mainly it was a country song in style. And it was reasoned by my managers that it would probably confuse the hell out of the people who had the notion that we were something to do with this new sound that was coming out of London. And I didn’t really care one way or another. I had a ballad on there, “Allison,” so I figured that the record already had a ballad on it, there didn’t necessarily need to be more than one. Most of the songs on the record were up-tempo, mid-tempo, so that seemed to be the right thing, you know? You want to make a nice, clear– I had written all sorts of types of songs before I had started recording, and I had worked out that I probably needed to get my foot in the door with a clear statement of intent. And that was that first record.

So, somebody – well not somebody – an A&R man at Columbia in New York, sent it down to Billy Sherrill. And for whatever reason, they decided I should be included on this duets record. Which was a bold decision on Billy Sherrill’s part, given that I could have been, literally, a flavor of the month. They didn’t know, I could have been around for five minutes with one record out, maybe two records out, my reputation was just starting out. And the next thing I was in the company of Tammy Wynette and Loretta Lynn and Emmylou Harris and Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings and James Taylor and Dr. Hook and the Staple Singers – I mean, it’s an incredible lineup on that record. And I traveled to Nashville to record the vocal and George, for whatever reason, couldn’t make the session. So I ended up playing a guitar solo on the record at Billy Sherrill’s insistence, which was embarrassing for me because I really didn’t rate myself as a guitar player and I didn’t have my guitar with me. I literally got a guitar out of the box and played a solo and Billy Sherrill said he was going to wipe a Pete Drake steel solo to incorporate my– ’cause it was like a split chorus. I forget, I think there might be fiddle on the front of it and then my guitar-kind of thing. So my first appearance on a Nashville record was as a guitar player.

That’s pretty wild.

Very wild, for me. And I went away a little bit disappointed that I didn’t get to meet George and I didn’t think the record– they had cut the track already, so it was all people like “Pig” Robbins and Pete Drake playing on it. It was the A-team and we were in, like, the studio I had read about, B, Columbia B. It turned out then, of course, that it did take quite a while to finish the album. And a year later, I was called and I was back through town and I got to actually do the recording with George. So that was my introduction. It was slightly unusual, you might say, ’cause I suppose there are songwriters who wait their whole life hoping to get covered by George Jones, much less sing on the record with him. I can’t say that I did a sparkling job on the vocal, I did the best I could, you know? And he was great. Still is great.

Well that’s baptism by fire, certainly.

And then I got the idea that I should come back, a couple of years later. I had made five records in quick succession and what was in my heart were songs that were very straight ahead, lyrically. Those were the songs I was writing, and most of the songs I liked at that time happened to be country songs. I didn’t see myself so much as a country singer, but as a ballad singer at that moment, a blue ballad singer. I asked Billy Sherrill to produce the record and we came in ’81 and cut an album in about nine days. We cut about 30 tracks – everything from Stonewall Jackson songs to Johnny Cash songs and Gram Parsons tunes, who had been very instrumental in people like myself, who grew up in England, in appreciating the soulfulness of country music and not just the novelty records that we’d heard on the radio in the ’60s.

That record I did in Studio A at Columbia, because they were refitting B by then. So, really, we could have been anywhere in the world, but Billy was the producer. And I think he was a little bewildered why we wanted to cut all of these old songs, and I think he was also a bit horrified by these kind of pale and trembling young men who would come into the studio in the morning, having stayed up all night doing God knows what. But we certainly managed to cut a record. I didn’t cut it with Nashville musicians, I cut it with– the band was really a band at that point and I wasn’t ready to go and cut a record with anybody else. We brought John McFee from the west coast, who now plays with the Doobie Brothers and played on my first album, to play steel. So we didn’t even use a Nashville steel player. We did have Tommy Jackson, who played fiddle, and there were singers and strings that Billy added. It was sort of our version of country music.

But for you, was it important to make Almost Blue in Nashville, for the sake of the feel of the record?

I think going on location always puts you in the mind. I thought something good would come of it, and it certainly did. We had a big hit record with Jerry Chesnut’s “A Good Year for the Roses” in England, a big, big hit record. The year before we had put out our first album without any single success, Trust. And most people– it was one of the many times we had been written off. It was sort of like, “It’s all over for these guys now.” We had had a pretty unbroken run from late ’77 to early ’80. We’d had three years where everything we made had been in the Top 30 in England and a couple other records that had been near – the second and third singles had had a degree of success. We were pretty much in the pop world in that time.

Of course, we weren’t so well-known in America. We were just getting started. You know, it takes two or three records for people to even known your name in a country so vast. And we spent most of that time touring, probably more far-reaching than most of our contemporaries. We were harder working than most of them. We could play better and we could go further. And people played only on the coasts a lot of the time. They thought they had been to America; they’d only been to New York and Los Angeles. We’d been to Tulsa. We’d been to Biloxi. We went to wherever they would book us, you know? We went right through the middle. On my first tour in ’77, the first date was in San Francisco, the second was in Los Angeles and the third was in New Orleans. And then the second tour, we opened in Austin. We made a point of taking it on, trying to get into the different regions. That way, we saw something of the country that we had heard through music. Of course, it was all different that you had imagined. You couldn’t just look, you couldn’t find the music and I didn’t have any friends to show me where the music was happening. Nashville, perhaps, is a little easier. When we went there, I got to find the stores where you could get the great records and heard a little music. Most of the time, I was probably a little more interested in chasing chambermaids. [Laughs}

Since Almost Blue, you’ve recorded in Nashville a few more times. What brought you back for National Ransom?

I came about five years ago and did a little of the recording for The Delivery Man, which was mostly made in Oxford, Mississippi, to record my version of “The Scarlet Tide” with Emmylou Harris. And then she sang on a song called “Heart Shaped Bruise,” which is my salute to Felice and Boudleaux Bryant. I’ve sung a bunch of those songs with Emmylou in concert. Just recently, I did the Bridge School Benefit and we sang three of the Bryant songs, that were recorded originally by the Everlys. We did “Love Hurts,” “Sleepless Nights” and “Brand New Heartache,” because I had heard them interpreted by Gram and Emmylou, so I loved them twice over.

I came a couple of years ago with T-Bone. We hadn’t made a record together since ’89 with Spike. I had worked a little in the studio with Dennis Crouch and Stuart Duncan on a couple of things that we were doing. I had played at Merlefest with Jerry Douglas and Jim Lauderdale, Sam Bush, Byron House and Larry Campbell in a country lineup. So I kind of tried out the string band lineup in concert – as is often the case, some of the best ideas start out in performance. And then we came and I booked three days at the Sound Emporium with T-Bone and we made the Secret, Profane & Sugarcane album. That was a very deliberately austere record. It was a ballad record, there were a few up-tempo things, but it was mainly ballads, a lot of narrative songs.

But once I took the band out on the road, the following year when the record was issued, of course it turned into a rock and roll band very fast – and because we started adapting some of my older songs to the musical possibilities of that lineup. We had vocal harmonies to a degree that I’d never enjoyed. Davey Faragher in the Imposters sings harmonies, but the Attractions couldn’t sing at all. So, I’d never had vocal harmonies as a major component of my live performance. Obviously, the timbres of those instruments, having soloists like Stuart Duncan and Jerry Douglas and Jeff Taylor on the accordion, and the foundation laid down rhythmically by Dennis Couch and Mike Compton – in some ways the kick and snare of that lineup. And I didn’t miss drums, playing that repertoire with that lineup.

By the end of touring, in ’09, I had written five songs that were recorded in the sessions for National Ransom – two of them written with Jim Lauderdale, I had enjoyed singing with him and we’d come up with those in the last days of the tour. And I called T-Bone and said I’d like to go back in. Then I wrote a bunch more songs which really called for there to be electric guitars and drums and I wanted those people to be Marc Ribot and Steve Thomas and Steve Nieve and, in the end, electric bass called for Davey Faragher as well – so really all of the Imposters and the Sugarcanes were employed in different combinations. And that’s what you hear on the album. It’s not like one band versus the other band, it’s new ensembles, really. You’ve got the Vox Continental organ with the mandolin and the double bass.

As you listen to album, different instruments come together and you might think it’s going this way, but then it goes in a completely different direction.

Obviously, we live in an impatient world where everything is supposed to arrive in single, 99 cent-bite pieces, soundbite kind of thinking. I had seen the end in sight a couple of times. A couple of times I had thought it was the end of the road for recording albums. Not recording, obviously, because we can record willy-nilly. I think it’s certainly true that the album is almost at an end. I figured that was most likely to be the case as we see the end of retail where the thought of stumbling upon an album that’s unknown to you and finding a compendium like you would in a book store. “On this looks interesting,” read the dust jacket, read a few pages, and you’re intrigued enough to buy it – that just doesn’t happen now. I don’t think browsing online does the same thing, because it’s a short step to knowing of its existence to downloading a piece of it, thereby dismantling any structure that was intended. Recorded music will thrive forever more, so long as people have new ideas. But the album compendium is clearly something that’s in some degree has something to do with the medium that it’s riding on, and that medium is now obsolete. I mean, the CD’s been obsolete for… eight, nine years, maybe. There was too much invested in admitting it. And it was way too much swindling in admitting it was a substandard medium to begin with, to which they penalized the artists and willfully overcharged the customer, thereby alienating the customer in the long run.

I think everybody knows in their heart that vinyl is a more attractive entity. It not only sounds better, but you get the artwork, if the artwork is of any consequence, and it’s in a scale that you can read and with scope for the visual design. So, perhaps there will be a case for making collections on vinyl in the future, but I think we’re moving toward instant communication. Or no communication – that’s the other possibility. Come off the grid and just play live. Either way could work. For someone like me, it could definitely be the latter. So, I figured, while nobody was going to stop me, I’d make a double album and if this was going to be the sign-off for the recorded career as I’ve known it, I wouldn’t be doing it in any sort of melancholy or melodramatic way. I would make the record, it would come out, it would exist and then I’d move on to the next reality, which is what I’ve been doing all along anyway, which is playing. I can’t change it. Conforming to the structure of a CD-length thing, whatever that’s supposed to be, as opposed to a four-sided vinyl record, wouldn’t change the fortunes of the record business one way or another. I just put out the 16 songs that I liked the best. And, like you said, there’s a lot of different contrasts, because I would think it’s an affront to the audience to make a record on which all the songs sounded the same. I know and love lots of different moods of music and I have the players to play it. So it obviously is not everyone’s taste to go all these different ways, but if you take time to listen, this record flows very well.

Well, for anyone who is familiar with your work, this shouldn’t come as a great surprise. There’s no need for the “warning label” that was included as a joke on Almost Blue.

I do get a little exasperated sometimes at how much coverage is spent on the trying to fit this into the jigsaw… it’s not strictly speaking appreciation or, in the proper sense of the word, criticism, to simply list the genres that are identified. It doesn’t prove that you’re that observant to simply go, “that is a sort of rock and roll song and this is a sort of a ballad.” What kind of insight is that? That’s self-evident. You just need to put the record on to know that. What’s within the songs and what the songs are about hardly gets commented on with anybody’s music these days. Possibly it’s because people are making such instantaneous judgments and they couldn’t be bothered to think harder than that.

I’ve never made records in reference to the other records I’ve made, except that I’ve probably done that thing and it doesn’t interest me in the immediate future. Then I might return to a form again and try to do something different with it, say, the next time I get to do a rock and roll combo record. I like all of the records I’ve made in that form, but they’re all different. This Year’s Model doesn’t sound like Blood & Chocolate, Blood & Chocolate doesn’t sound like Brutal Youth, Brutal Youth doesn’t sound like Momofuku. They share some of the features of my writing and some of the players. But National Ransom wasn’t set up in competition with King of America than Secret, Profane & Sugarcane was. I don’t understand the impulse to want to put them in a hierarchy. I know that National Ransom is a better record that many others that I’ve made, or that you’ll hear today, but it’s a record that does invite listening, that’s for sure. I think there’s enough things that will hook you right away and that’ll get you involved in it, if you want to.

But, most importantly, it’s just an announcement of a repertoire. Otherwise, I’d be making that announcement from the stage. And that’s probably where I will be making it in the future. You know, “Here’s a new song. Would you like to hear it?” It may cut down the speed of which new material can be disseminated, because, obviously, people are less willing to listen to a lot of new material in a theater. They will listen to one or two songs that are new. So, I think we’ve got to see where the future lies with recorded music and how it’s compiled. I think it’ll be very interesting. I think there will be a case for instantaneous communication with the audience and the new media. But there could be a tendency for some people to go to a live performance, as the best place to drop these songs in. Because the minute they’re performed, they’ll be excerpted on whatever phone camera is running at that moment, so they’ll still exist…

They’ll be on YouTube by the end of the night.

Yeah, that’s all right, that’s all right, because I’m not getting paid anyway, so what difference does it make? It’ll just be an inferior version. It won’t be the one that I would have made. But, I’m not going to spend my own money making records. I don’t have any. So that was a period of time that we lived through. Here it is. It’s over now, and here are the new songs in performance. I could spend 10 years just playing songs that already exist. I could play shows for a year and never repeat myself, you know?

You mentioned that you’re usually only able to do one or two new songs in a show. Do you find that people get restless if you do more than that?

Actually, no it’s not the case, necessarily. I’m just saying that, if you advertise it up-front, people are going to want to know that they’re going to hear the hits. My experience of playing the songs of National Ransom in performance ahead of the release of the album was that every single concert that we played “Jimmie Standing in the Rain” or “Slow Drag with Josephine,” it stole the show. I mean, I played a two-hour show with the Dallas Symphony, two nights, actually, in the summer. And, as an encore, I came out and played “Josephine” on my own, without a microphone, and completely upstaged everything. Now, there’s a certain trick to doing something that’s very, very immediate like that. Singing directly to people has a certain showman aspect to it, but the song has to work, as well.

I opened a show recently with “Bullets for the New-Born King.” Now that’s not a typical opener, is it? It’s a ballad. And it really created a great mood, and, what it did, it created– people leaned forward in their chairs. And then, when we hit them with the first rhythmic number, it kind of upped the… So, I now have a group of songs which can change the architecture of the show quite a bit. I’ve found that over the last little while, taking a moment to play, whether it’s an acoustic guitar version of “Bedlam” or “Stations of the Cross” or “One Bell Ringing” – these songs can capture a moment. And that’s something you share with 1,500 or 2,000 or 3,000 people in a theater. That’s very different than shooting something out into the void of a recorded medium, never knowing for a moment how people are listening – whether they are listening with intent and concentration, or if they’re half-hearing it and saying, “Well, it hasn’t got much of a beat.” Well, that’s not what it’s about, you know? But if you’re in a room and you’re in control of the mood and people are with you and listening, that’s a very persuasive thing, that we’re all feeling something about what’s going on in that moment. This is what makes live performance… I don’t want to say superior, but richer and more nuanced than anything you’re capable of recording on a record.

It’s all about the moment, about what’s happening right now.

Well, that’s all recordings are. They’re that moment. That’s why we record the way we do, as performances, rather than these highly crafted records – some of which I’ve made and enjoyed making. But right now, I don’t hear recording that way. And, as the resources become less and less for recording, there can only ever be sketches in the future, until there’s a new paradigm. So, I think that’s why I wanted to take full advantage of the richness of the possibilities of National Ransom, because I literally don’t know when we’re going to do this again. Because, to gather those musicians together to make a recording that’s going to be issued on a disc is a very different thing than bringing those musicians together to go on stage and play. The one thing is a viable commercial equation and the other isn’t.

[Jack of All Parades]

Thank you for posting this. Definite sense that this is the end of regular recording from EC-really believe it this time. Loved the analysis of performing and the sense of frustration that he feels when an audience cannot sit through more than two new songs. His reflections on Nashville and working there are quite telling.

[wardo68]

While I hate to disagree with Christopher...I disagree about the "this is my last album" thing. As long as record companies produce a physical entity that people have to touch with their hands (or whatever) to hear, there will still be albums. Vinyl is stronger than it's been in years. And if he doesn't like the current distribution routes, he should press and distribute his "albums" himself. As I've been saying for over ten years now.

But beyond that, it's a good read. Nice insight into the genesis of the Sugarcanes and NR.

[jardine]

as long as they produce a physical entity...yep, but how long, exactly? I'm old, and having national ransack as a download that i've burned onto a cd is just about equivalent for me, still, with not having it at all, or having it somehow vaguely "in the meantime" until i really have it. I understand how this is just habit, etc., but it is like i did not "receive" something from the artist, just came and got it myself, so if feels as if the artist didn't really care one way or the other to say "yes, here it is." It has actually affected how i listen to it, as if i don't really want to dedicate my ears to it because it isn't really there. I've always thought that this was equivalent to banks who somehow convinced us that, "for our convenience," we can run the bank machines ourselves and pay for the privilege.

I've worked with a book publisher which basically prints and binds a book every time someone orders one. That same day it is send out to the customer. no storage, no overproduction, no useless shipping, no "returns" etc., but this, of course, cuts across elvis' lament regarding what record stores used to be where you could come across something unexpected. but frankly i still get a bit of that on line, where, with "downloads etc." you can get a bit of a hint, like him talking about reading the back cover, being fascinated by the title of a song, etc.

Press and distribute them yourself. yep. the idea of just doing performances speaks to his current frustration and also to how much he really seems to be enjoying himself lately in this regard, but it speaks, too, to the crappy sales of NR--anyway know at all how many this has sold compare to others of his? seems, on the face of it, to be a very low number...

[Jack of All Parades]

Wardo-please do disagree with me in abandon- I love that- too often the dialogue here is sterile and by rote. Agree he has the ability to utilize alternate distribution and recording methods. But he clearly states in the piece that he will not be releasing material putting up the money to produce and distribute[and given his sales track over the last 15 or so years see no major label doing this either]- cd, vinyl, mp3 on his dime. He continues to state he has no money.

[Ypsilanti]

But, I’m not going to spend my own money making records. I don’t have any.

Not sure if this is believable at all, but the website "Celebrity Net Worth" says he's worth $60,000,000. Hardly chump change. Still, there's no reason he should finance his own recordings if there's no profit in it. It's not meant to be a charitable endeavor...

[Dr. Luther]

...but the website "Celebrity Net Worth" says he's worth $60,000,000.

No fucking way.
I doubt that it's a third of that.

[cwr]

Sigh. If he is truly done with making records, he had a good run. But it would still make me sad.

Realistically, how much would it set Costello back to set up a small recording studio in his house? Would that be prohibitively expensive for a guy like him, or would a Lexus ad or two do the trick? It seems like if Frank Zappa could afford to do this (back when such technology was a lot more expensive and hard to come by), Costello could certainly afford to have a home set-up to make records and it would not cost him a fortune.

I think the DIY approach has been beckoning to Costello for years and he just refuses to hear it. It would make sense-- obviously the days of big-budget albums like SPIKE ended long ago, but some of Costello's very best records have been recorded almost like demos. Would anyone mind if all of EC's future output was done at the level of, say, "Hoover Factory"? I certainly wouldn't.

Of course, I had hoped we might one day hear an Imposters record that took full advantage of Costello's relatively newfound skills as an orchestral composer/arranger. We have one record, "Impatience", where we can hear the band (along with Marc Ribot on guitar) augmented by a horn section and a full string orchestra. With so many great pop ballads left unrecorded ("Suspect My Tears", "Burnt Sugar Is So Bitter", "I'll Watch Out For You", etc.), it would be a shame if there wasn't at least one full album where Costello got to show off The Imposters playing in this realm. I feel like we got a ton of Imposters playing Americana and roots music but not as much in the realm of the kind of pop balladry that would show off all he learned in the aftermath of PFM...

Of course, the sad reality is that he gave it a good college try with National Ransom, and the people simply didn't turn out to buy it in the kind of numbers that would've encouraged him to try again. SP&SC's modest success probably helped nudge him towards recording NR, and lightning did not strike twice, sales-wise. Even critically-- the reviews were undeservedly mixed, and it has been widely ignored on most of the end-of-year "best of" lists, not even cracking most critics TOP FIFTY. People just take him for granted now.

As much as I want another great Costello record next year, I know that it probably won't happen, and for a lot of really good reasons. SAD.

[cwr]

Sigh. If he is truly done with making records, he had a good run. But it would still make me sad.

Realistically, how much would it set Costello back to set up a small recording studio in his house? Would that be prohibitively expensive for a guy like him, or would a Lexus ad or two do the trick? It seems like if Frank Zappa could afford to do this (back when such technology was a lot more expensive and hard to come by), Costello could certainly afford to have a home set-up to make records and it would not cost him a fortune.

I think the DIY approach has been beckoning to Costello for years and he just refuses to hear it. It would make sense-- obviously the days of big-budget albums like SPIKE ended long ago, but some of Costello's very best records have been recorded almost like demos. Would anyone mind if all of EC's future output was done at the level of, say, "Hoover Factory"? I certainly wouldn't.

Of course, I had hoped we might one day hear an Imposters record that took full advantage of Costello's relatively newfound skills as an orchestral composer/arranger. We have one record, "Impatience", where we can hear the band (along with Marc Ribot on guitar) augmented by a horn section and a full string orchestra. With so many great pop ballads left unrecorded ("Suspect My Tears", "Burnt Sugar Is So Bitter", "I'll Watch Out For You", etc.), it would be a shame if there wasn't at least one full album where Costello got to show off The Imposters playing in this realm. I feel like we got a ton of Imposters playing Americana and roots music but not as much in the realm of the kind of pop balladry that would show off all he learned in the aftermath of PFM...

Of course, the sad reality is that he gave it a good college try with National Ransom, and the people simply didn't turn out to buy it in the kind of numbers that would've encouraged him to try again. SP&SC's modest success probably helped nudge him towards recording NR, and lightning did not strike twice, sales-wise. Even critically-- the reviews were undeservedly mixed, and it has been widely ignored on most of the end-of-year "best of" lists, not even cracking most critics TOP FIFTY. People just take him for granted now.

As much as I want another great Costello record next year, I know that it probably won't happen, and for a lot of really good reasons. SAD.

[Poor Deportee]

The irony of this 'I'll never record again' approach is that performers 'of a certain age' (shall we say) are the ones whose audience is most likely to be dependent on obsolete media. Take me, for instance - a technologically sclerotic 40-year-old who has yet to really make the jump to purely digital media as delivery systems for music. And I doubt that, in my age and dispositions, I'm wildly atypical of EC's core fan base. If EC chooses to release new material informally via live performance, I will be put out of my way to try to access it (I mean, I'll hear it on Youtube, but what about portability/sound quality?). And it's not like that approach will bring him NEW fans. So all told, this whole line of thought does strike me as slightly perverse.

Frankly, I think EC would be better served by being true to the approaches to recording and distribution that he most enjoys. Clearly, he loves and has always loved the album format. Why not keep doing that, then - come what may? Hasn't he said that he enjoys recording records? Isn't making records part of what he set out to do? Why, then, worry so much about how it's received by a vacuous marketplace? It's not as though alternative routes will be more profitable.

I suspect that much of his position ultimately boils down to a sort of ressentiment at an industry/marketplace that he finds insufficiently appreciative. That's prima donna ego, really - not argument.

As for him not having any money, I take that more as an expression of relative deprivation from a man who pals around with Paul McCartney and Elton John than as a statement that any normal human being can relate to. The man has condos in Vancouver and NY - there's at least a cool 2-3 mil in assets right there. He gets money every time some stupid hockey arena plays 'Pump It Up' for the gazillionth time. Without presuming to know the ins and outs of EC's business, I think we can safely say: give me a break.

[cwr]

I agree that when Elvis claims to have no money it is offensive.

Even if he lost all his money today and was left with zero dollars, his ability to earn way more money than most people with a click of his fingers is indisputable. He is a world famous, award-winning musician with tons of famous friends and colleagues.

In a world where most people struggle and scrape to get by, I have very little patience for talk like this. It's like when a Hollywood star does a movie for scale and says they did it for "no money." Lots of people would LOVE to earn scale to act in a movie. Just like lots of people would love to be able to earn as much as Elvis Costello does. Including lots of really talented musicians who struggle and scrape to get by every day, and who would love to be able to make records.

I think it's a shame that Elvis isn't more appreciated and that more people don't listen to his records, but to hear him talk about his lack of money is more than a little absurd. If nothing else, he's MARRIED to a millionaire musician who could also start from zero tomorrow morning and be a millionaire again by the end of 2011...

[Jack of All Parades]

Poor Deportee said:

"I suspect that much of his position ultimately boils down to a sort of ressentiment at an industry/marketplace that he finds insufficiently appreciative. That's prima donna ego, really - not argument.

As for him not having any money, I take that more as an expression of relative deprivation from a man who pals around with Paul McCartney and Elton John than as a statement that any normal human being can relate to. The man has condos in Vancouver and NY - there's at least a cool 2-3 mil in assets right there. He gets money every time some stupid hockey arena plays 'Pump It Up' for the gazillionth time. Without presuming to know the ins and outs of EC's business, I think we can safely say: give me a break."

and CWR said:

"I agree that when Elvis claims to have no money it is offensive.

Even if he lost all his money today and was left with zero dollars, his ability to earn way more money than most people with a click of his fingers is indisputable. He is a world famous, award-winning musician with tons of famous friends and colleagues.

In a world where most people struggle and scrape to get by, I have very little patience for talk like this. It's like when a Hollywood star does a movie for scale and says they did it for "no money." Lots of people would LOVE to earn scale to act in a movie. Just like lots of people would love to be able to earn as much as Elvis Costello does. Including lots of really talented musicians who struggle and scrape to get by every day, and who would love to be able to make records.

I think it's a shame that Elvis isn't more appreciated and that more people don't listen to his records, but to hear him talk about his lack of money is more than a little absurd. If nothing else, he's MARRIED to a millionaire musician who could also start from zero tomorrow morning and be a millionaire again by the end of 2011...
I agree that when Elvis claims to have no money it is offensive.

Even if he lost all his money today and was left with zero dollars, his ability to earn way more money than most people with a click of his fingers is indisputable. He is a world famous, award-winning musician with tons of famous friends and colleagues.

In a world where most people struggle and scrape to get by, I have very little patience for talk like this. It's like when a Hollywood star does a movie for scale and says they did it for "no money." Lots of people would LOVE to earn scale to act in a movie. Just like lots of people would love to be able to earn as much as Elvis Costello does. Including lots of really talented musicians who struggle and scrape to get by every day, and who would love to be able to make records.

I think it's a shame that Elvis isn't more appreciated and that more people don't listen to his records, but to hear him talk about his lack of money is more than a little absurd. If nothing else, he's MARRIED to a millionaire musician who could also start from zero tomorrow morning and be a millionaire again by the end of 2011..."

I completely agree- it is a point that Alexv has been making for years, in particular the prima donna ego argument and the palling around with the Elton John and David Furnishs of this world. More and more I am convinced of the validity of Nick Lowe's criticism from year's ago that EC is infatuated with celebrityhood. As to income, whatever his bank account is it is well beyond mine and perfectly capable of keeping he and his family in comfort for years to come. This crying of poverty is disingenuous. It is also what made his playing that recent 'corporate' gig all the more offensive for me. He did not need the money and he just chucked his moral scruples, as displayed on NR, and shilled. I love the man's music for the most part but have considerable trouble getting past the 'prima donna' aspects of his 'celebrity' loving self. What always struck me as odd was the list of activities to be accomplished in one's lifetime for the VISA card ad he did several years ago- "Play the back nine at Pinehurst" EC and golf- give me a break!

[Emotional Toothpaste]

Thats a bit harsh. All he said was there is no money in making "albums" as we used to know them anymore, and why spend his own money to do so until something gives in the record industry. I can't say I blame him.

Elvis net worth @ $60 million is absurd. Where do they come up with this stuff? Did someone drive up to his residences, take measurements of his property, look up the tax and public records on him, investigate all his assets and subtract the debts. Hell no. They pulled a # out of the air.

[Jack of All Parades]

Unfortunately ET that is not what he said - these were his words from the interview and not taken out of context, either:

"But, I’m not going to spend my own money making records. I don’t have any."

Agree that he also thinks the old economic model in recording is broken and does not offer a profit for artists but he clearly is crying poverty and that is disingenuous. I, and others, do think he could pay for and produce his own recording efforts in the future- I believe there are enough fans like ourselves who would purchase the product to at least defray the cost. He clearly, at this time, wants no part of such a model.

[Emotional Toothpaste]

I don't take that as crying poverty at all. I take it as, I'm not going to invest in a losing proposition. Simple as that. Elvis does plenty of charity work and for that I applaud his efforts, but I don't think he files his business taxes as a not-for-profit corporation.

[Ypsilanti]

I would imagine he already has some kind of recording ability in his house--or certainly has friends that do. The cost of recording is one thing, but to actually get from that point to the end point of having a physical product, stocked on the shelves of stores, is another matter all together. The cost of producing records or CDs, the packaging & distribution has got to huge in comparison to the recording. It's unrealistic to think an individual artist should foot the bill for all that.

In terms of his earning power, I wouldn't think it would be so great. Even if he tours all the time, he still has a lot of people to pay before he takes a cut--the venue, the band, tour mgr, travel, roadie, agent, management company, assistant, guitar tuner guy, security, the union, etc. He plays in halls that seat, what? Maybe 2500 people. How much could that possible net him per night?

Royalties? It's not like his songs are constantly being covered by bigger-selling artists. I would imagine this also generates are relatively modest amount of cash.

And record sales...am I correct that a record company puts up the money for a record and if it isn't profitable, Elvis is on the hook for the balance? If that's the case, he probably pays something out of pocket for every one.

I agree the $60,000,000 sum is unlikely. If he has that much it's the result of brilliant investing long ago and tremendous luck.

[Jack of All Parades]

I have been giving this some thought- that is the self production and promotion of selected recorded material. I think a working model can be found in the example of Richard Thompson. He has in the past, with some success I believe, issued his own material. An immediate, and quite good one, that comes to mind is his "1,000 Years of Popular Song" of a few years back. Perhaps not a revenue stream of note for him but he is allowed the freedom to get things out to the public efficiently and more importantly distribute his music that might not be deemed of "commercial" value through his website, though it sure has musical value to my ears. Richard is still free to tour and place the occasional song on a successful soundtrack, like EC, and have a steady income from these activities but still able to provide product to his listening public. Just a thought.

[cwr]

I don't take that as crying poverty at all. I take it as, I'm not going to invest in a losing proposition. Simple as that.

It may have been slightly tongue-in-cheek, but he DID say "I don't have any [money]." I don't know if there is a more direct phrase that one could use to cry poverty, however one chooses to take it.

I think there may be an aspect of this which is that EC simply has no interest in seeking a new model for releasing recorded music in the age of the digital download. He's a guy who likes vinyl records and record shops, he has always had a certain amount of hostility towards the Internet and never fully embraced it as something he could utilize as an outlet for his creative expression. It's just not his thing.

An Elvis who was hungry to make records would be eager to figure out a new way of doing things, but I think, frankly, it just holds no appeal for him. He doesn't want to make records for a bunch of Elvis Costello fans on the Internet. He wants to make records that sell really well in record stores, and that doesn't seem like it's ever gonna happen.

Of course, Elvis cries retirement every three to five years, and there are those of us who always buy into it, myself most definitely included. But I think there is an element that seems different this time-- Elvis just recorded and released and aggressively promoted a really terrific record that was met with mixed reviews, low sales and instant amnesia on the part of those critics who did like it when writing their end-of-year write-ups. This might well be a worst case scenario for Elvis--if he had released an absolute dud, an album that everybody hated, then he might feel the need to prove himself once again, by immediately putting out a follow-up that would knock everybody's socks off. And THAT album would actually stand a chance, because everybody loves a comeback.

But NR was great, and very few people actually cared, in the end. How unsettling that must be. How discouraging.

If Costello wants to write songs and release recordings of them, he'll find a way to do that. But he might not actually want that. Which depresses the hell out of me, because I didn't much care for the songs of NR until I heard the album versions, and now I know that there is a chance that the next new Costello songs might simply be known to us in muddy live recordings or YouTube clips.

The last time EC threatened to stop making records, I was hopping mad. (How DARE he!) Now I'm just resigned to the fact that he could actually follow through on it this time, and it feels like such a loss to those of us who cherish hearing his studio recordings of new songs. But I can't blame him anymore.

[alexv]

I don't for a second believe he's going to stop recording. As noted by others, he's made this threat before, more than once, and I've lost track of how many records/double records he's done since the threats started. And of course he's also become a minor TV star/celebrity. He plays for the President, gets invited to the Nobel, subs for Letterman. Elton, Bobby and McCartney are BFFs. He plays for Yahoo execs, Las Vegas conventioneers and Citi cardholders. The world is interested enough in his likes and dislikes that the Citi folks have given us an EC top ten list that includes his apparently newfound belief that you haven't lived unless you've golfed at some fancy golf club somewhere. And we are supposed to believe he's "poor" or unappreciated? I think Ypsi's net worth estimate is way off, but I'll wager my last schekel that EC is a millionaire.

I suspect that part of the reason he's a millionaire is that he's a greedy bastard, and does not like the idea of spending time and money on product that no one buys. As he frequently reminds us, he works everyday and hasn't taken a day off in years (he's probably working now). What really pisses him off is not the state of the record business, or the change in record-buying habits. It's that not enough people are buying "his" records (double, vynil or CD).

Christopher, he'll never take you up on the Richard Thompson model. Unlike Thompson or Marshall Crenshaw or lots of other highly thought of artists who are content with modest success, our boy is in it for the brass ring, always has been. Notice how in that interview, when he talks about the initial success, he takes the time to specifically reference the type of success he had with "singles". The charts, baby!! Those of us who thought of him, at that time, as The Man, liked him because of the strength of the records, not the fricking singles sales, or whether he had second level chart success with Mighty Crowded. He stood for great music, which only rarely (see the Beatles) happens to equal singles success. But EC is a closet careerist/workaholic. And like any good careerist, he needs to see evidence of success or he pouts or resorts to threats. Do folks remember how over the moon he was about the success of "She" in...Brazil? Gee, he must have been doing something right.

So, of course it's ironic that someone with such a large cult following, a following that grows larger as his profile grows, even as he reaches mid 50s (ancient by pop music standards) is not content with that level of success, which when coupled with the almost universal critical acclaim for his work over more than 30 years, would be the envy of most artists. Instead, he whines and complains, like he whined about Columbia Records dumping Blood and Chocolate (that's why it didn't sell!!), like he whined about Warner Brothers not being run by people who knew how to market his type of music (that's why those records didn't sell!!); and now he'll be whining about NR not selling, except that now it's the record buying public's fault. What he should really feel bad about is that the real reason his records don't sell is outside of his workaholic hands: non-Hip Hop acts, in their 50s, who make sophisticated, adult records steeped in tradition and have quirky singing voices will never have mass appeal, unless they sold enough records in their youth to get the elders to keep buying from sheer habit.

I can offer a suggestion: wait a few years, suffer financial ruin, develop health problems, grow your beard again, dye it white, and then get Elton to do a duet album. You'll get a Grammy nomination (a proper one), and probably sell a lot more records.

But what I would really love to tell him is that the one true and honest thing he said in that review is the thing that I appreciate the most: he knows that NR is the best record he's made in years. He can see that Josephine and Jimmie and Bullets are great EC songs. We can show him, by our constant chatter here, that Moon and Voices are also great songs that he should be proud to have recorded, and that we are lucky to have in recorded form. In his 50s, he's still capable of jarring us with great songs that deserve to be recorded, no matter hown many "units" get moved. He's got enough money to see that this continues. And it will.

I say, ignore the threats; forget the poverty claims; don't listen to the doom and gloom predictions for the music business. He's pissed cause the only folks paying attention to NR are right her in this little corner of the world. But rest assured that some new project will come up; some BFF will whisper in his ear, and poof we'll be enveloped in another EC media blitz for some project we can't even conceive of right now. And we'll get another record. Yay!!

[Emotional Toothpaste]

Great post, AlexV. You had me agreeing mostly up until the part about all the NR praise. I'm afraid its just not that good. 1/3rd of the songs are strong to average, the rest are completely skippable. Maybe the .99 cent iTunes format suits Elvis best and he doesn't even know it yet!

[Jack of All Parades]

Alexv said:

"I can offer a suggestion: wait a few years, suffer financial ruin, develop health problems, grow your beard again, dye it white, and then get Elton to do a duet album. You'll get a Grammy nomination (a proper one), and probably sell a lot more records."

Alex, I think you have found the new model! That is spot on.

[Ypsilanti]

When has Elvis said he doesn't want to record anymore? What he actually said in the interview above, and on several other recent occasions is due to the collapse of the record industry and the rise of digital media, he might not have the opportunity to record again. That's a huge difference that all of you seem to be ignoring.

Recorded music will thrive forever more, so long as people have new ideas. But the album compendium is clearly something that’s in some degree has something to do with the medium that it’s riding on, and that medium is now obsolete...So, perhaps there will be a case for making collections on vinyl in the future, but I think we’re moving toward instant communication. Or no communication – that’s the other possibility. Come off the grid and just play live. Either way could work. For someone like me, it could definitely be the latter.

[cwr]

When has Elvis said he doesn't want to record anymore? What he actually said in the interview above, and on several other recent occasions is due to the collapse of the record industry and the rise of digital media, he might not have the opportunity to record again. That's a huge difference that all of you seem to be ignoring.

No one's ignoring anything-- Costello repeatedly floats this concept-- "From now on, I'll just do my new songs in concert."-- a few years ago, he was defining himself as primarily a concert singer, something which was a definite change from the guy whose output of studio recordings was almost non-stop. He can blame the record industry or mp3 for changing his circumstances, but it's still going to come down to a matter of WILL.

In what world does Costello not have the "opportunity" to record again? Yes, he probably can't make SPIKE II-- and shouldn't waste his own money making it, because he'd almost certainly lose a bundle doing so-- but if John Wesley Harding can still find the "opportunity" to make records, surely Costello can. Unless I'm confused and John Wesley Harding has become a bigger star than Costello (THAT'S the kind of remark that could almost send Costello rushing back into the studio this afternoon), Costello can find the opportunity to record more albums IF HE WANTS TO.

If Robert DeNiro started complaining about how he might not have the opportunity to make gritty dramas anymore, it would be easy to surmise that he's talking about how he might not have the opportunity to make big budget studio-financed dramas anymore, and that he's simply not interested in taking a pay cut to make a gritty drama at the level of an independent movie by someone like Paul Thomas Anderson. It's not a stretch to say that if DeNiro really WANTED to make gritty dramas, he COULD. Likewise, if Costello really WANTS to make more records, he will. If he doesn't, he WON'T. That was the point that was being made. (No one was "ignoring" anything, or saying that Costello has "said" that he doesn't want to make records anymore.)

The smart money is that he won't be able to go more than five years without making a new record, and that this is yet another bogus retirement, the kind he's been declaring since 1980. ("Forever doesn't mean forever anymore...") The scared and sad money is that this could be it, and that there are actually a number of reasons why it makes sense now.

I agree with alexv that Costello wants the big brass ring-- as much as he might say "I play for those who are listening", on some level he hates the fact that his fan base consists of a lot of obsessives like him who obsess about every little nook and cranny of his body of work. He has less interest in making records just for us, he wants that new and bigger listening audience. That's not to say that he doesn't put out some stuff that's JUST for us-- he's not deluded enough to think that anyone but an obsessive would be tracking down National Ransack on vinyl, or The Clarksdale Sessions or Cruel Smile or... But I don't get the feeling that he'd be happy merely settling for a career of putting out records to the corner of the world that already adores what he does and would follow him to the ends of the musical earth...

[Jack of All Parades]

CWR says:

"I agree with alexv that Costello wants the big brass ring-- as much as he might say "I play for those who are listening", on some level he hates the fact that his fan base consists of a lot of obsessives like him who obsess about every little nook and cranny of his body of work. He has less interest in making records just for us, he wants that new and bigger listening audience. That's not to say that he doesn't put out some stuff that's JUST for us-- he's not deluded enough to think that anyone but an obsessive would be tracking down National Ransack on vinyl, or The Clarksdale Sessions or Cruel Smile or... But I don't get the feeling that he'd be happy merely settling for a career of putting out records to the corner of the world that already adores what he does and would follow him to the ends of the musical earth..."

Agree totally with you and Alexv- you both sum it up quite nicely! Always has been the brass ring!

[History History]

It's obvious that EC has no interest in the mechanics of the music business beyond writing, recording and performing and he gets prissy when he thinks this is under threat.Even though he began his 'career' (for want of a better word) during the DIY explosion in England he had his feet firmly planted in the established method of getting music out - Stiff Records was an independant label, for sure, but it was still run along the same lines as EMI - he was never involved in the production side of things. When he gets impatient with this process, he gets motivated to get his music out there; I'm thinking of the Pills and Soap single when I recall he took the single into radio stations. I don't see Elvis stopping anytime soon, he can be playful and innovative with the process when he wants to be!